It's all G(r)eek to me.

Feedback.pdxradio.com message board: Archives: Politics & other archives: 2007: Jan - March 2007: It's all G(r)eek to me.
Author: Chickenjuggler
Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 7:12 pm
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Will someone take a look at this and tell me;

#1. Do I need an antennae to send a decent signal with this?

#2. Could I, in theory, power this up in my car, attach an iPod to it and send a signal?

http://www.hobbytron.com/FM35-1-WATT-Digital-Stereo-FM-Transmitter.html

Author: Mrs_merkin
Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 7:31 pm
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It's all (G)reek to me. Oh wait, wrong thread. Sorry!

Just don't broadcast "The Sting" song out loud from your car, kids could be injured running to what they think is The Ice Cream Man.

Author: Missing_kskd
Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 7:36 pm
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One watt will go quite a ways! Well over the Part 15 limit.

A friend an I once did this with a lesser powered unit. We would hook up a laptop, connect the unit to the car whip antenna then drive around dxing the signal. Park it on one of the bigger hills and it will go a long way.

Thought more than once about a bumper sticker: "Wanna Share? FM xxx.x"

Didn't want to get into trouble, so the dx fun was all we really did.

By comparison a 1/4 watt unit will go a mile with a solid antenna system. I would often use that one, with the house TV antenna to spray the yard and surrounding block for portable tunes in the summer, before I had a portable media player.

Author: Darktemper
Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 8:55 pm
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Have Radio Station Will Travel! I know....park your butt right under KUFO's tower and broadcast on the same frequency and see what havoc you can create!

Of course you must sign the almighty "WAIVER" to release them from any problems you may churn up with the FCC if busted doing anything illegal! LOL

Like waiver's really hold up in court!

Author: Skeptical
Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:10 pm
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I don't think broadcasting a 1 watt station under KUFO's tower is gonna affect KUFO's signal one iota. But hooking up that 1 watt signal to a linear (sp) amplifier will. Something in the range of 100 watts will do just fine, 1K watts would be even better.

Our tower geeks ought to be checking in soon.

Author: Darktemper
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 6:07 am
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Hey.....now I resemble that remark! Although not in radio I do hardware support for various systems and equipment! Be nice....remember that without those tower geeks you got no signal.....no signal=no bradcast=no DJ's!

Author: Littlesongs
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 7:13 am
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Hooray for the tower geeks!

A few months ago, the "king geek"* at Stonehenge and I discussed low power FM and carrier current stations. The common thread of the conversation was that with some horse sense and solid engineering, a legal signal could cover a pretty sizable area. Often, especially with LPFM, you could vastly improve both strength and coverage without breaking any rules. Of course, we were talking of tiny, but licensed broadcasters, often on a college campus. Solid engineering, however, is universal -- even if you just want to listen in your yard.

(*I use that term with great affection, Mr. B.)

There is a great deal of information on the internet about Part 15 broadcasting. No doubt, the best place to start is with the FCC: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/lowpwr.html

Here are a few other good places to poke around:
http://www.collegebroadcasters.org/cctech.shtml
http://www.part15.us/

A few random Part 15 stations to check out:
http://www.k107fm.org/
http://www.980woq.net/
http://www.t1700.net/

Good luck. If you take the plunge, let us know when you are on and perhaps the DXers on this board -- myself included -- can help you draw a signal coverage map. Some Part 15 stations have lasted a long time by playing by the rules, having quality programs and drawing in listeners.

I hasten to add that I will in no way endorse the illegal operation of an unlicensed radio station that broadcasts beyond the legal limits set by the FCC or one that interferes with the operation of legally licensed broadcasters.

Author: Darktemper
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:33 pm
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I just wanna know something. Do these "Tower Geeks" have to climb those things to the top and fix something way up were "Eagles Fly"? Great Hagar tune by the way! Cause if they do you guys should by them a drink once in a while to show your appreciation of that! If you want to understand why just go climb the tower with them some time and you will likely join them in that drink when done!

Can you say: "Scared to death of exposed heights"? I Can! LOL

Author: Littlesongs
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:58 pm
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Yes, they do.

http://www.well.com/user/dmsml/stonehenge/index.html
http://www.sbe124.org/Tours/Portland/Stonehenge/
http://www.natehome.com/
http://www.fybush.com/
http://www.cntower.ca/portal/
http://jda.co.nz/skytower/skymain.htm
http://www.sears-tower.com/home.axis

Through rain, snow, sleet, but not hail. Hail usually comes with thunderstorms. ;o)

Author: Darktemper
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:06 pm
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Count be out! No Way Jose! Stonehenge looks sturdy but still....were is the elevator?

Oh Yah....I wanna be on the tower when it takes a hit like in that first link.....Wahhhh Whhoooooo

Author: Littlesongs
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:23 pm
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The elevator and the first level studio were ideas that were thrown out pretty early on -- as I understand it -- because they were too expensive to be practical.

Repairs are performed by engineers who strap into safety harnesses and climb up -- like most other broadcast towers. Tools and parts are sent up in canvas buckets by rope. Safety is the most important job of a tower climber. The blinking lights you see or the better reception that you get is all a byproduct of safety.

A funny rumor was floating around during the construction that an observation deck and restaurant were in the design, but of course that was never in the plans. Another rumor about this tower being purposely built just a few feet taller than the Space Needle may have some merit, but I have never had it confirmed, except in jest.

Author: Darktemper
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:30 pm
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Who says there is no Restraunt up there. Tower geek with a Subway sandwich and a Coke would have a great view for lunch! Not the best place to take a first date though! LOL

Author: Darktemper
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:39 pm
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If your Tower Guru ever comes down from the tower looking like the following:

http://www.rapp-instruments.de/static-machines/vandegraff-generators/hair.jpg

Here's a tip...."Don't touch him.....unless you don't mind a little ZAP of static!" LMAO

Show me the "HAZARD PAY"

Heck....save yourself some time and skip the climb back down....just pack a chute and base jump the sucker! LOL

Author: Littlesongs
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:41 pm
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I wouldn't use the word "geek" around these guys. Anybody strong enough to climb 600 feet with that much gear is definitely not a geek. There is also rigorous training before they get their certification. Many of them have jobs in other fields, some are certified arborists and mountaineers. Some climb into the forest canopy or scale mountains just for fun. Adventurous, yes, but geeks? Definitely not. :0)

Author: Darktemper
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:42 pm
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Please note last post....modified geek to "GURU"

Author: Littlesongs
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:45 pm
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RF is very real concern for climbers and technicians. An array has to shut off, switched to another site or run on reduced power when work is being performed anywhere near it. RF can sometimes be felt in the lymph glands under the arms or in the neck, but the most common place is in the eyes and the jewelry store. If it is felt, it is far too much for human exposure. Luckily, there are instruments to measure the radiation and routine steps to prevent exposure.

Author: Darktemper
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:48 pm
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You would not want to stand in front of a microwave transmitter on full power now would ya!

Ever see the movie "Gremlins" and you'd know why!

Author: Littlesongs
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 1:52 pm
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I am sure that stress isn't the only reason why quite a few radio engineers lose their hair. :0)

(DT - I'll let them know that you offered to buy them all a beer. ;o)

Author: Skybill
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 8:19 pm
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Theoretically, any time you are working in a RF environment you are supposed to be wearing an RF monitor. (Theoretically is the key word!).

The one I have is made by Narda and is set to alert anytime the RF field strength reaches 50% of the occupational limit.

There are 2 threshold levels. One limit is for the general public and one for the occupational workers. The occupational level is for people that have been trained in RF safety and awareness. The limits are based on RF field strength and length of time spent in the RF field.

For guys that climb towers if the RF field is too strong they make a "chain mail" type suit that they have to wear.

For more information on RF exposure limits see the following; http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet65/oet6 5.pdf

Some of the big broadcast towers do have elevators going up them. Generally they will hold 2 people at the most and usually they follow the ladder.

Author: Littlesongs
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 8:33 pm
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Like I said earlier, and Bill beautifully expanded upon, it is much more pleasant to wear a monitor than to feel your Easter basket get warm.

Author: Darktemper
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 8:37 pm
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They had a show on a while back showing how a helicopter would attach in flight to a live high tension power lines. Now there is a hazardous line of work for you for sure! One mistake connecting to or disconnecting from and your are a human pop tart that was left in the toaster to long!

PS...I only used the Pop Tart example cause there are several pop tart junkies on this forum!

Author: Skybill
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 8:59 pm
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Darktemper, I saw that too.

I've worked in electronics since I was 14. I have WAY to much respect for voltage and current to do that!

Author: Alfredo_t
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 9:57 pm
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Do these high RF field workers ever feel a tingle in their mouths due to the fields inducing voltages in metal dentalwork?

Author: Skybill
Monday, February 12, 2007 - 10:29 pm
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Alfredo, I don't know. That's a good question, though!

I've heard stories, but don't know if it’s true or not, of fillings acting like a diode detector and people hearing radio stations in their mouth! I did a Google search and found no proof that it could or could not happen.

I've gotten a headache from being at a high RF site for a couple of hours or so.

At the site where we have a couple of our paging transmitters on Cheyenne Mtn. in Colorado Springs, CO, there is a sign on one corner of the building stating: RF Warning. Do Not Stand Here Longer Than 76 Seconds.

That's one of the places I get the headache


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