13% of Congressional Republican respondents believe in global warming. That's still 13% too many, but a good start.

http://syndication.nationaljournal.com/images/203Insiderspoll_NJlogo.pdf

Herb

Note the comments under the survey. There is some clear overlap between the two parties - on both sides people admit that both natural and manmade factors are contributing to global warming. But Democrats who take this position answer "Yes" to the survey while Republicans who agree with that same basic position answer "No." And note that there is essentially no disagreement from either side that global warming is happening (that is good) - they just cannot agree on the cause. Regardless, it is a phenomenon that we need to respond to in some way.

Me, I'm buying beachfront property in Longview.

Utterly facetious lies about Congressional Republicans below:

100% believe in America
99% believe in God
72% believe in Reaganomics
68% believe in Science
39% believe in Santa Claus
29% believe in Flying Saucers
16% believe in the Tooth Fairy
13% believe in Global Warming
11% believe in the shrub

None of them believe in magic, except in a young girl's heart and the way that music can move them whenever it starts.

Explaining global warming to Republicans is like trying to tell a stranger about rock n' roll.

Hey Little,

I think you transposed the numbers for "Science" and "Shrub"

And it's magic, if the music is groovy
It makes you feel happy like an old-time movie

No, no, Herb is right. Nothings happening. The weather is normal. The polar ice caps are just fine. Don't pay attention to that man behind the curtain. I'm sorry Herb, I know you can't hear me with your head in the (warmer) sand.

The best reason to be a Republican is the current state of the Democratic party.

The best reason to be a Democrat is the current state of Republican party.

Don't get too cocky...there is plenty of scientific dissent on this issue.

http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/about/position/globalwarming.jsp

Herb

Pick any scientific "fact" out there and I can probably dig up some internet nut case who can provide "scientific dissent." Shoot, I'll bet some crackpots even believe the world is flat, too, and have "evidence" LOL! The few people who are arguing today that Global Warming doesn't exist will someday look like those people who first argued that the world couldn't POSSIBLY be a sphere...

All reasonably intelligent people realize that the earth is warming, and probably human activity has had a lot to do with that. Scientists overwhelmingingly believe this. Unfortunately, the supporters of action about combatting Global Warming have done a lousy job of presenting their case about what we should do about it. Ask the average Joe what the most likely solution is to Global Warming and they'll tell you that we will all need to stop driving (and who is really willing to do that on a large scale?). The human contribution to global warming is far more complex than just the driving of cars but you don't get that. The way the case for change is being presented today, no wonder no meaningful action is being taken to counter Global Warming.

Andrew

Hey Herb, nice try, but those guys are on the take.

C. D. Idso and K. E. Idso. They've lent their names to a lot of warming "skeptic" reports. Scientifically, they're outliers, are funded by Exxon/Mobil and other energy interests.
As it turns out, the basis report by Baliunas and Soon was funded in part by the American Petroleum Institute. It was also coauthored by Craig Idso and Sherwood Idso, whose Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide has been funded by the coal industry and ExxonMobil.

"...and probably human activity has had a lot to do with that."

There's the rub.

You'll have a hard time proving anything close to that.

Herb

The industrial revolution was followed by the Ford Revolution and the Dodge Rebellion. Now, we are having the Chevy Revolution. Don't you read the advertisments in your history books?

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/kits/images/Literature/mono70-fordrev.JPG
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Images/Chicago/frank3.gif
http://mclellansautomotive.com/photos/B5458.jpg
http://www.radiorumpusroom.com/lakestreet/pages/scrapbook.html

Herb, there will be plenty of proof in time, don't worry. Sad that it will be too late by then to make much difference. Our grandchildren will curse us for sure for being so stupid.

For the meantime, let's do nothing and pretend there's no problem because we can't prove it to a 100% certainty. Meanwhile, you keep reading your bible and accepting Christianity based on faith, not proof.

Andrew

The best reason anyone could possibly ever have to be a Republican is "Hillary Clinton"! Hell even bill is considering crossing over! Only reason he went Demo was because Hillary made him do it! You could say Bill is a made man!

I heard a new saying today and I have to use it!

I wouldn't vote for Hillary until (and here it is) Chickens are an endangered species!

Well.....maybe yu be lill mor spific Lucy.....

Check it....The Attwater's prairie-chicken is an endangered species! So cast your vote accordingly! LOL

"Rrrruuuuuuuuucy? What splosions!? Splain."

"Oh, I'm sorry Ricky, I was making a casserole."

An Attwater's prairie-chicken casserole no less!!!!!! LOL

Off thread, but in line with the Attwater's prairie chicken theme;

What would the tree huggers do if the snail darter was the spotted owl's favorite food?
(That's not a riddle, just a question!)

And our candidates square off for their debate. Who will come out as the winner?

http://www.watchthisspace.ca/pixelpost/images/20060705214307_rockm_sockm.jpg

50 clams on Louie the Lefty! LOL YABBA JABBA DO

"...you keep reading your bible and accepting Christianity based on faith, not proof."

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

http://faithfacts.gospelcom.net/quest_blind_faith.html

It's easy being a cynic. It takes effort to examine the proof.

Herb

Who you thumping on Herb?

Thumping?

It's a civil response to a ham-fisted slam.

Herb

OK.....

Andrew, in all fairness to Herb, I too have faith in the bible and in my own Christianity. Martin Luther King Jr. said: "Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase."

Faith happens all the time but when we put into spiritual terms without any "tangible" evidence it certainly can be construed as absurd if not radical.

I can't speak for anyone but myself about my faith. I don't need to pound you with biblical references, or cliché’s, I can only give what I have seen happen in my own life. That is my proof. It may not be proof enough for you but I'm not trying to persuade you only give you my story.

I wasn't questioning anyone's faith, Chris, and I don't doubt yours (or Herb's). What I meant was: people like Herb stand up and demand 100% proof before even acknowledging that man could be contributing to global warming, yet they are willing to accept Christianity without proof. Seems like a double standard to me. My point was that if you are open to accepting something, you can do it without 100% concrete proof. These people who claim to be unconvinced about Global Warming simply don't want to accept it - 99.999% proof isn't good enough for them.

Andrew

"...people like Herb stand up and demand 100% proof..."

Wrong. Didn't happen. I just don't take the word of those in the pocket of left-leaning politicos like Mr. Gore, who spews more C02 from his private jets than you or I ever will.

How you can follow a double-talking guy like him never ceases to amaze me.

Herb

Can someone please explain to me how global warming is partisan?

Herb, Al Gore is far from the only person out there warning about global warming. The Pentagon for example produced a study just a few years ago warning that global warming could be as dangerous to the security of the United States as any other threat.

But the honest truth, Herb, is that you choose to deny the existance of man-made global warming for one simple reason: because Democrats and liberals are warning about it. So, you're opposed. Too bad for you.

Andrew

As if you would believe anything touted by conservatives.

Spin on.

Herb

Author: Herb
Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 11:59 am

"I just don't take the word of those in the pocket of left-leaning politicos like Mr. Gore, who spews more C02 from his private jets than you or I ever will. How you can follow a double-talking guy like him never ceases to amaze me."

vs.

Author: Herb
Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:41 pm

"I refer to Nixonian minutiae from time-to-time. It's because I like to stick up for who I see as a flawed underdog...one who often tried to do the right thing and was his own worst enemy."

Spin: off.

Hmm. Well, Herb, I believe in a balanced budget. There was a time when conservatives believed in fiscal responsibility...

Andrew

Touche'.

I don't buy everything Mr. Bush is selling. However-unlike the left, I don't bash him for everything he does, either. Besides, I'm a Nixon man, remember?

Speaking of which, I was driving the other day and saw a bumper sticker: "Bush makes me miss Nixon."

If, 20 years ago, you'd told me liberals would be pining for my guy Mr. Nixon, I'd have said you were drinking something.

Herb

This is all cherry picking.

Either Gore has it seriously wrong or not. Which is it and why?

I have yet to see a staunch conservative that doesn't bash Clinton for everything he did, or does.

But it does seem that Republicans play the victim card quite often, i.e. reporting is biased against us, the Iraqi's don't want freedom bad enough, etc.

Although Bush did recently take some responsibility for mistakes in Iraq, before that time he was famously blameless - I recall the question of mistakes made put to him at one of the '04 debates, and his answer was something like, "I made the mistake of thinking that the Democrats could be reasonable." Classic! That's Republican humility for you.

The facts are not in on global warming, especially its cause.

The globe may indeed be warming. But it may not be from human activity. Or it may be a cyclical event. Ever hear of El Nino?

As for Mr. Gore?

Flying around in gas guzzling jets like 'Mr. Environmentalist' Bobby Kennedy, Jr. only makes them both colossal hypocrites.

"The facts are not in on global warming, especially its cause. "

Bullshit. Total tripe. So typical of a blind conservative to ignore a ton of research and analysis when it yields an unfriendly result.

"The globe may indeed be warming. But it may not be from human activity. Or it may be a cyclical event. Ever hear of El Nino?"

The ocean is warming because the sun is heating it more and more as a result of ozone depletion. It's not a fantasy, it's a fact.

It's ok to be a conservative, but if you really believe the swill you just posted you are terribly misinformed, brainwashed, or both.

Your ham-fisted attempt at refutation included everything...except the hypocrisy of geniuses like messrs Gore and Kennedy who push this putrid swill.

Herb

Well, what would you accept as evidence to prove it is human activity?

Linkage.

Cause and effect.

Let science sort it out.

Anything else is wild sensationalism.

Herb

So, science? You'd accept science? Or would you not accept science?

Faith and common sense can be great partners.

No faith or common sense:

The building is on fire.
You smell no smoke.
The alarm goes off.
You demand empirical proof.
The firemen tell you to leave.
You demand the evidence.
The firemen plead for you to leave.
You stubbornly refute the evidence.
The firemen rescue others and let you die.

Faith and common sense:

The building is on fire.
You smell no smoke.
The alarm goes off.
You pray for the others in the building.
The firemen tell you to leave.
You exit.
You thank them.
You thank God.


Simplistic? Sure.

If this planet was created by a divine hand, it would seem to me that the most staunch conservationists ought to be those who think it to be among the master works of the Almighty. No surprise, many of them are peacefully defending the beauty of our planet every day.

Marginalize environmentalism, and you marginalize a lot of good Christians -- and people of many faiths -- who continue to see our natural world as sacred. It is neither partisan nor denominational to say that we have to change our lives to save the planet.

Worship the Creator, not the created.
All else is pagan...or worse.

Herb

A creator is not a creator without creation. If you remove the evidence of his works, you remove the evidence of him as well.

The Vatican acknowledges global warming.

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=19830

But not Herb.

I don't carry H20 for the pope.

Sorry. Contrary to popular opinion, he's not infallible.

Herb

Let's lighten up and not bring in God, Richard Nixon, the Zapruder footage, the face on Mars, a report on why wool makes you itch, the Masons, the liberal conspiracy that keeps Terwilliger from being "straight" and the conservative conspiracy that kept the nation from learning who shot "J.R." for months and months.

Our planet is in trouble. End of story.

Unless you have "another good reason to be a Republican" you would like to share, Herb, nothing is added to the discussion that you started.

Here's a good reason: Dorchester is a really fun party at the beach!

Terwiliger isn't straight?

Does his wife know that?

She's the one with most of the curves.

Here is what I think.

It comes down to this administration and the GOP in general. Anything that might further marginalize that power structure is considered bad, waste of time, not important enough, not proven, etc...

This is all about keeping the structure to advance the agenda. And that agenda is well aligned with a theocracy.

The information presented so far is more than enough to get the average joe concerned. Want to know the brutal part?

It does not matter if it's caused by humans or not, what does matter is the extent of it and if we can do something about it.

It's obvious to me, we can make some changes and only help our situation here on this planet. There is no harm, other than some costs and some shifting of energy powers.

So we should be researching and working to make our mess here as small as is possible, no matter what. In the end, it all adds up and we've got nowhere to go for a good long time yet.

"I can't speak for anyone but myself about my faith. I don't need to pound you with biblical references, or cliché’s, I can only give what I have seen happen in my own life. That is my proof. It may not be proof enough for you but I'm not trying to persuade you only give you my story."

Chris, that is a wonderful statement. I am tempted to quote you when I am attacked for defending the vast majority of Christians who are not extremists or kooks, simply people who have found their own spiritual way in a cold, cruel and cynical world.

I have been enjoying photos and articles about Republican fundraisers in other parts of the country.

Never underestimate the ideas of the right when it comes to a good time:

http://www.urbanelephants.com/nyc/node/6338

If a party gets out of control, sometimes records get broken:

http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=5464

http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=6329

Of course, we all remember who woke up with a hangover after this wing-ding went down:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/16520887.htm

I am surprised the cops were not called to settle these rowdy crowds:

http://gagop9.org/CagleGala.htm

http://www.mainepolicy.org/Default.aspx?tabid=70

Yes, I promise to give laughs to both sides.

We still need a cost benefit analysis on this one:

"How are you going to react when you see that you have OK'd $5,000 for Patti LaBelle's hairdresser...?"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156278,00.html

"All Events Canceled" Man, what a killjoy:

http://www.draftmarkwarner.com/html/events.html

Herb do you believe like your pal Lars that Greenland was named Greenland becuase it used to be Green?

It was never 100% Green, it was named Greenland so that Vikings would Colonize Greenland as Iceland was having issues since people believed that Iceland was 100% ice.

So a name like Greenland was used to attract people to colonize the area. However it didn't last for ever.

However today it is getting closer to be called Greenland as Global warming is providing warmer conditions.

So Herb do you believe the melting of ice in Greenland is just a natural occurance?

The question isn't if the melting of ice anywhere is "a natural occurance."

The question is whether or not man is responsible for it.

If man is not, it's very possibly cyclical like el Nino.

We've heard the hype before. Finding the cause is the key.

Herb

El Nino has been around as long as the world. It comes around every 2 to 5 years when the Pacific waters warm and has nothing to do with global warming. I guess we need to put it in the bible then you would know this.

BTW Herb, the only thing Republicans are good at is sticking their heads in very dark places.

As a Republican, I resemble that remark!

Herb your relatives must be from Eqypt since your in "De-Nile".

"El Nino has been around as long as the world. It comes around every 2 to 5 years when the Pacific waters warm and has nothing to do with global warming."

I did not say that it had anything to do with global warming. Don't lie about what I said.

I said it could be cyclical, then cited el Nino as an example of a cyclical occurance.

Spin on, tree-huggers.

Herb

"We've heard the hype before."

We have? You say that as if we have and it's been debunked with the same reasoning and resources.

Or are you just talking about some other scandal or something?

Tree Huggers??

Spin on you old Oil suckin', SUV lovin', coal power plant using carcinogen eatin' neo-COONer!

How about a good reason to be a republican is that the other party does not have a spine and constantly worries about elections and not results.

LMAO.

Yeah!

Results BLOW.

Mc74 writes:
How about a good reason to be a republican is that the other party does not have a spine and constantly worries about elections and not results.

If you truly believe the last Republican Congress had spine or that they and the Bush White House haven't make pretty much every decision based on future elections, you are incredibly naive. Karl Rove's hand was in pretty much every significant decision through the 2006 elections.

Andrew

Herb, Serious question. Do you have any type of formal (and recent) education, training, background or training in any science?



Mrs. Longtime Former USGS Employee


(That's the United States Geological Survey)

All about the GOP. If it's not an issue that will generally strengthen the party, Herb is not up for it.

Remember folks, nothing else matters but fighting terror and getting those rightie court appointments.

Teddy Roosevelt was a lot of things and one of them was treehugger. He created our National Park system and passed a legacy of conservation to generations of conservatives.

Nixon was the last of that grand old guard. He created the Environmental Protection Agency. Of course, this all happened before his party was hijacked by a minority of uniformly uninformed fools that are borrowing heavily against an ever dimmer future.

So you go to the woods for the urbane elements? Do you search all day cursing nature for the lack of concrete? Is it a disappointment to you that birds are louder than car stereos somewhere in Oregon? Are you excited by broken bottles, spent shell casings and discarded clothing?

If you are a real man, go angling, hiking or hunting, and still think that saving the woods is a joke, move somewhere where there are no trees to make you laugh.

"Herb, Serious question. Do you have any type of formal (and recent) education, training, background or training in any science?"

Yes. University degree in the hard sciences.

Herb

Oh, didn't know that.

So the lame ass dodges are deliberate then?

The people of Australia have undeniable evidence of climate change and have had to face new challenges with a bit of imagination. Here are just a few of the facts from the scientific community about our antipodean friends.

"Australians have the highest rate of skin cancer in the world. Each year over 1400 Australians die from this almost totally preventable disease." -- The Cancer Council of Australia
http://www.cancer.org.au/content.cfm?randid=906824

"In the year 2000, the ozone hole over the Antarctic reached its biggest size ever covering 11.4 million square miles - an area more than three times the size of the United States. For the first time it also stretched over populated areas exposing local residents to extreme levels of solar UV radiation. Local authorities warned residents in Southern Chile that they could sunburn in less than seven minutes and should avoid spending time outdoors in the middle of the day." -- WHO Fact sheet N°261
From a report from the World Health Organization about saving children from skin cancer.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs261/en/

"There is also a strong link between UV increases and an increased incidence of human skin cancer and cataracts of the eye... Over the past decade ozone over Antarctica has thinned unnaturally in springtime. Scientists have determined that this depletion is a direct result of humans... A single chlorine atom can destroy thousands of ozone molecules before becoming tied to a stable compound. When a stable compound finally occurs it causes no further ozone loss." -- Australian Antarctic Division
http://www.aad.gov.au/default.asp?casid=750

Did all of this go by when you were arguing over whether it was the world's biggest island or smallest continent? In simple terms, nonbelievers, our allies are still dying and you still refuse them any help. You call yourself American?

Paul Hogan is gonna kick your butt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hogan_(actor)

Thanks, Herb. Three more if you don't mind...

Were you employed in any science-related field or capacity?
How recently was that, and do you keep up with current developments in your area of study/expertise?
Is it oil- or energy-industry related?

The Questioning Continues with Dorothy Kilgallen ...

Merkin......
If you read Herbs response as I did I think he was trying to be funny and referring to a bachelors degree from the school of hard knocks and what he did not mention is the masters degree from the Ham Fisting academy!
LOL

Suppose Herb would agree that's better than coming from Lily Livered recently turned co-ed ex all leftie girls school!

One would hope So! LOL

"Thanks, Herb. Three more if you don't mind... "

I won't pry into your life if you'll do likewise.
Let's just say I'm not only university educated, my resume' includes work in the sciences and I'm also very well read.

Given that the liberal-to-conservative ratio here is 3-to-1 or higher, I don't expect to be popular around here. A semblance of civility is much as I can ask for.

Since I'm on the receiving end of vitriolic ad-hominem attacks most of the time on this board, my life experience practically grants me the right to teach doctorate level courses at the Academy of Ham Fistology.

Herbert Milhous

Herb said>>>>
Let's just say I'm not only university educated, my resume' includes work in the sciences and I'm also very well read.

You can be VERY well edubacated and be VERY ignorant to the world and what is going on....
Is that HAM FISTED enough for ya Herb?