Not giving a crap about America and it's citizens one bit.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16989248/

He only wants to defend the US, protect its citizens etc.erals.

It would be cheaper to give in to the terrorists, like the chamberline following libs.

We won't have a country if we don't defend it.

The left thinks their pals, the French, will save us. Truth is, we've given American blood twice to save their bacon.

Herb

"He only wants to defend the US, protect its citizens etc."

Then why the holy hell has he executed the worst non plan to do so in American History? Hot on the trail of bin Laden in Afghanistan turned into chasing bogus WMD's based on trumped up intel and the smell of oil. What utter bullshit, nwokie.

"It would be cheaper to give in to the terrorists, like the chamberline following libs."

You and Herb both still don't get it. This isn't about "liberals" and "conservatives" rather about common sense. Explain the rationale behind the actions of Bush, a president who originally ran on "no nation building" whom blames everything on "9/11" when in fact the invasion of Iraq was on the table before 9/11 and the reason his own generals and party do not agree with his base assumptions, and how playing referee in a civil war is going to lead to anything resembling success in a land where the factions have been at war for THOUSANDS of years.

"e won't have a country if we don't defend it."

Bush is not defending America abroad nor at home. There is more violence in the world than ever before, and all our money has been stolen by contractors and politicians in Iraq. The government is not pouring but small amounts of resources in really mounting defensive measures, rather blowing the wad on offensive useless maneuvers. The lessons of Vietnam go unheeded and if anyone has their heads in the sand, it's you guys. You can swallow the government b.s. all you want. This country is not going to improve anything by staying in Baghdad.

"The left thinks their pals, the French, will save us. Truth is, we've given American blood twice to save their bacon."

Again, this is not about left and right. This is about smart and stupid, and Bush has the stupid plan, hands down. 85 out of 100 Americans can't be wrong.

THE LEFT HAS SAID NOTHING ABOUT THE FRENCH SAVING US FOR THE 4OOTH MILLION TIME!
JHC Herb your worse than Wayner was on some things....

Ignorance is truly bliss in Herb's case.

Andy sez: You and Herb both still don't get it. This isn't about "liberals" and "conservatives" rather about common sense.

That's 100 percent correct! Being in the 85 percent, I wholeheartedly agree!

But for those other percenters, it is about the two ideologies. Bush, for better or worse, has done the conservative ideology great harm. He got some judges on the bench and has given the core issues a lot of lip service, but the price is really high.

Half a trillion dollars and growing for an unjustified --and possibly illegal war has damaged the GOP huge! This alone will sharply limit their power over the next 8 years. But there is more!

We've got the tax cuts that damage our ability to recover from the mess economically, diminished interest in service in the armed forces, very questionable legislation that runs contrary to any Americans core beliefs and our clear founding documents.

The executive power grab sounded good in that that moral compass might actually see some action, but it's a double edged sword as well. Nobody likes the torture, secret courts, etc...

If you are a solid conservative, who do you stand with now? The Dems are not gonna push the social issues, nor should they! We actually need the GOP functioning correctly to check that tendancy, just as we need the Democratic party checking things on the GOP side.

Guess I'm more of a centrist than I thought! (I do however lean hard left on social issues --permissive means no harm, no restriction period!)

That leaves the libbies. Not a bad choice, but also not one that's gonna be legislating anything that matters for a while yet. It's a solid indirect statement, but that's it. Heck, with some work and 10 years, the libbies might be a factor with all that ex-GOP blood.

From a conservatives point of view, we run the very real risk of everything swinging the other way with the Dems in charge of it all for a while.

(Oh, on a side topic, has anyone noticed the aggressive use of the fillibuster right outta the gate? I think it's just funny as hell to see the GOP using this tool as if none of their earlier whining even happened!)

Frankly, that makes me uncomfortable as we could easily see some social gains, but see problems in other areas. Much better to have all parties working together than one or the other. So, I feel for you, in that regard.

So, there really are only a few choices:

-join another party
-stay home for a while and wait
-prop up the GOP and maybe salvage something
(This is the clear path for a lot of the remaining GOP supporters!)

-start a new party
-reconsider alternative avenues to get things done indirectly.

I'm sure there are others, but it's looking pretty grim for conservatives in general.