Here you go Wayne.

Show me both.

Beleive it or not Wayne I got your back on part of this......

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_tapping

Read as follows:

During the American Civil War, government officials under President Abraham Lincoln eavesdropped on telegraph conversations.


Sorry but the other is up to you man!!!!

L8R


EDIT ADD:
Would not go near that one with a "TEN FOOT NUKE"

WOW.

I had NEVER heard that before. I was 100 % WRONG.

Mmmmmmmmm this crow tastes HORRIBLE...some more?..OK.

OK - so there's one.

You know something....

You would make a great impression on me right now if you just said:

It appears' that I was mistaken on that issue. Sorry about that.

That would be a truly great statement. One that I personally would not gloat over. Maybe others would back off a little as well. We are all human and to "Error is human and to forgive is Divine"

And the Divinity is especially good this time of year....wait two different things. But both are still good!!!!

I personally like the taste of Spotted Owl myself.


Edit Add:

BTW...Sorry bout the CJ

Here...Passing you my bottle of "JACK"....take a hit on it to help the bad taste!!!!!

Oh Yah....here...take my bowl of cheesecorn to! LOL

The proverbial egg is on my face too. I committed the sin of shooting off my big keyboard without bothering to do a simple search or two on "Lincoln wiretapping." I assume most posters, myself included, were thinking along the lines of, "Lincoln died in 1865, Bell invented the telephone in 1876," and forgot about telegraph.

I'm sorry. No ifs, ands, or qualifications, I screwed up.

Those words often don't come as easy as some on this board claim, but some things have gotta' be done.

On the internet we have more time to scrutinize our words than in a real time conversation, but it's still easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment, or in the excitement of trying to post the best one-liner. I'll try to scrutinize my words a little more next time before posting.

Edit;

Confusion explained.

I forgive. Thanks for the help DT. You really nailed it.

CJ...

When you're done I think it's gonna need to be passed around a wee bit tonight!!! Maybe Wayne will join in and need a shot (in spirit only of course) as well!

Sorry CJ...that was meant for Wayne.......

You know something.... Wayne

You would make a great impression on me right now if you just said:

It appears' that I was mistaken on that issue about the 500 WMD. Sorry about that.

That would be a truly great statement. One that I personally would not gloat over. Maybe others would back off a little as well. We are all human and to "Error is human and to forgive is Divine"

And the Divinity is especially good this time of year....wait two different things. But both are still good!!!!


Wayne....Did I apologize to you for something? Don't remember having done anything...at least today needing an apology. Think you and CJ got my statement confused so I repost it here!

Sorry for the unclear post.

Have a Great Night Guys!

BTW....
By this time in my life I think I have personally eaten an entire flock of crow and maybe even a seagull or two by mistake!!! LOL

You get used to the taste after a while.....JD BBQ Sauce is the key...easy on the BBQ sauce heavy on the JD!

I thought it was in the news that 500 WMD's were found. The point is that it was up to Saddam to declare them and not up to Bush to find them That was the point of UN resolution 1441. I think maybe that needs to be posted here. I thought people knew about the 500 WMD's. The libs complained that they were dated in 1991. But still Saddam was supposed to declare them . When Bush41 pushed Saddam out of Kwait the point of the resolution was that the dictator was supposed to declare his weapons.

He was supposed to declare his weapons, destroy them, and allow UN inspections of all suspected weapons factories, caches, and storage facilities. **THAT** was UN Resolution 1441.

Saddam stopped allowing UN inspectors in for quite some time, yes. He was wrong to do that and against UN sanctions, yes. That said, when US and British troops invaded, no WMD's were found. You have contended time and again that 500 were found.

If you have this news evidence that 500 WMDs were found, PLEASE, spill it and make me eat crow like I KNOW you want to.

BTW CJ and Darktemper, it was very honorable of you two to admit Wayne was right on the wiretapping. I was skeptical as well, so gimme a bite of that crow!

(does it taste like chicken?)

brian sez: "I was skeptical"

You were?

Crow tastes like....well lets just says it's nasty tasting!!!!!

I have gotten used to the taste after a while.....JD BBQ Sauce is the key...easy on the BBQ sauce heavy on the JD!

Ya but you know I searched that wiretap thing and found it but I don't think that Wayne knew that either or he would have for sure posted it. My Christmas gift to the man!

Still wating on the one in return!

If you have this news evidence that 500 WMDs were found, PLEASE, spill it and make me eat crow like I KNOW you want to.
-----
Even if there were no WMD's I thought Bush made it clear that he went into Iraq to remove Saddam from power because he did use the weapons against his own people. Do you think its possible that Saddam might have moved the WMD's into Syria?Bush and Capitol Hill both based the action on the intelligence they got that said that the weapons were there. I don't see how Bush deliberately lied.

OK - so there were not 500 WMDs found when we invaded.

Will you please stop claiming that we found 500 WMDs now?

Amen to that.

Actually, we did find 500 WMDs (chemical). All you have to do is Google for "500 WMDs Iraq" and you'll find numerous stories and some photos on the find.

However, they were old WMDs and of questionable use by anyone. In other words, not a significant find, not a smoking gun. But, they were found. It turned out to be a story that didn't have "legs", as they say in the biz.

Look, my plate is full already. I don't have time to be Googling the internets for facts that disprove me again.

I have a nice black-crow-feather-boa now though.

So, ok, we found 500 WMDs. Is the story you cite DJ, the same one that Wayne uses to prove that the reason we invaded was, as it turns out, completely justified?

Admittedly, I didn't know about the story. I was just going off of what President Bush said - " We didn't find them."

Someone should send him a link so he'll feel better and quit being so disappointed. Turns out he DID find them.

Maybe that same bunch of poeple who gave him " bad intelligence " forgot to tell him.

No biggie. It happens.

>>>"Is the story you cite DJ, the same one that Wayne uses to prove that the reason we invaded was, as it turns out, completely justified?"

I'm sure it is. I only brought this up to point out there was such a find and that Wayne wasn't making it up. It was so insignificant a find, however, that it hardly made a blip on the radar and everyone quickly lost interest in it.

Ya but that was all dated old stuff we knew they had and would probably blow up on themselves if they tried to use it....now that would be a shame wouldn't it! NOT! I saw those articles' as well but discounted them as any sort of a reason to take action against anyone over. So as far as that issue goes...."NO CROW FOR YOU"

New Seinfeld episode "The Crow Nazi" or in what's his name's case just "The Nazi" period!!

Wadda ya think guys...time to move on to something new?

Edit: Michael Richard's...forgot his name for a second!

OK.

Well then, hmmm.

Sparrow for me please. Not full crow. Tiny bird.

We may as well go through them all now then. Get it over with.

" We haven't invaded Iraq."

That's a statement that I disagreed with from Wayne.

Now, trying to Google that proves to be a bit futile. Like trying to find out about a " The The " tour.

some people are simply unable to use critical thinking in their discussions, in other words, just throw a bunch of sh#t, including some from dubious websites or sources, and you will find some will stick. its better to just look at the batting average of the poster and dismiss everything outright until he/she improves her average.

anyway, the president is the one who said there were wmds in iraq. the president is the one who later said we didn't find any. hair splitters and those without critical thinking skills ought to be ignored.

Or if you are painting your stucko house and you want to find out how well latex paint will bond with it so you search the internet for "Latex Bondage".....now there is some interesting results for ya you did not expect......yowzer!!
10 million pages probably on that one!!

LOL

I didn't think hairs were being split. I just thought that was the closest thing to an answer, for why Wayne had stated it, as could be shown.

I thought the story was given the right amount of credibility. Little to none.

The WMD's that we invaded for were never found. End of story!

That's how I feel. Best thing that happened is that a butcher is no longer in power over there.

Author: Reinstatepete
Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:49 am


The WMD's that we invaded for were never found. End of story!

----
Saddam was removed from power. End of story! The WMD's were move to Syria

Author: Skeptical
Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:34 am


some people are simply unable to use critical thinking in their discussions, in other words, just throw a bunch of sh#t, including some from dubious websites or sources, and you will find some will stick. its better to just look at the batting average of the poster and dismiss everything outright until he/she improves her average.

anyway, the president is the one who said there were wmds in iraq. the president is the one who later said we didn't find any. hair splitters and those without critical thinking skills ought to be ignored.

----
John Kerry and Bill Clinton both said Saddam had the weapons too. Why does only a Conservative Republican break the law would you tell me?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html


So much for the WMD's not being there

So much for your claim.

On June 22, 2006, Hoekstra made headlines by announcing on the Fox News Channel that weapons of mass destruction had been located in Iraq in the form of 500 chemical weapons ([3]).

However, the Iraq Survey Group's Duelfer Report had already dismissed this find almost two years earlier: "While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991" ([4]). A number of other media outlets disputed the claims made by Hoekstra and Rick Santorum regarding the existence of weapons of mass destruction, reporting that the claims were disputed by both Pentagon officials and the intelligence community ([5], [6]).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hoekstra

And from the story itself:

Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

This finding does not prove out the WMD threat we were told was the basis for this war.

A good example of why Faux "News" isn't a valid cite.

Muck Raker works for FoxPaw News! :~)

Currently on field assignment...somewhere!

Edit Add:
Just funning...have nothing against Fox News. Just name I made up to do a Santa Shot down By Osama bit a while back.

>>>"A good example of why Faux "News" isn't a valid cite."

It's Fox News and the word is site.

"Cite" works too though.

cite
v 1: make reference to: "His name was mentioned in connection
with the invention" [syn: mention, advert, bring up,
name, refer]
2: cite, as for an outstanding achievement [syn: mention, acknowledge]
3: refer to [syn: reference]
4: repeat a passage from; "He quoted the Bible to her [syn: quote]
5: advance evidence for [syn: adduce, abduce]
6: call in an official matter, such as to attend court [syn: summon,
summons]

site
1. The place where a structure or group of structures was, is, or is to be located: a good site for the school.
2. The place or setting of something: a historic site; a job site.
3. A website.

How does that thing go....!


Oh Yah...

*PLONK*

Yeah Deane - thanks for that. See? " Cite " works too. Maybe that's not how he meant it. But it works.

Faux...meaning false.
Cite...to repeat.

I can see were he was going with that.
Perception though...it's all in how you perceive that statement!

Actually, if you look at it that way, he used it correctly.

Which is exactly why I was so unwilling to post it. I think only something from the Clinton News Network would have been accepted.

You always have an excuse, don't you?

Nothing you will ever accept. Now you know why I don't like to put sites up don't you? Proof is the biggest waste of time that there is to a liberal. Nothing can ever please them unless they agree with the proof that is being offered. Thats so sad.

You know what's really sad? You making a post to Chris T. in his time of loss that's all about YOU.

This is about what, the third or fourth time you've made a selfish, disrespectful comment about someone in, or related to the radio community's passing on.

Don't you EVER learn anything?

You are truly pathetic.

Merkin speaks the truth.

No, I gave you proof of the 500 WMD's just like you asked and you didn't believe it just like I knew you wouldnt. There is no bigger waste of time than giving proof to a liberal. My mom is right: Don't confuse me with facts my mind is made up.

And I did say something nice to Chris, Mrs M. Where did you do that?
I really think you need to say something to Chris Mrs M instead of blasting everyone you don't agree with. Isn't this the holiday season? You know peace on earth goodwill toward men? Do liberals believe in that? Or is all that they care about their political agenda?

Yeah, and it proved to be something known about for a couple of years and the weapons themselves were in bad enough shape that they weren't usable.

Nice try.

WW said>>>
Bush made it clear that we were ther to overthrow Sodomy...

WRONG!

WMD's were the 1st reason...

SPIN ON!!!!

Disagree 100 per cent. The removal of Saddam was why we went into Iraq. He was supposed to declare his weapons. You really need to read resolution 1441.

Author: Brianl
Monday, December 11, 2006 - 7:15 pm


Yeah, and it proved to be something known about for a couple of years and the weapons themselves were in bad enough shape that they weren't usable.

Nice try.

---
Nice try? Saddam was given orders to declare his weapons! That was the point of resolution 1441. He did not and that was the point of Iraq.You need to read the resolution.

WW..
you really need to go back and look at all the PRESS CONFERENCES that DUHbya and Co. had about a Mushroom cloud coming to America....
Your memory is AWFUL! Or you just don't want to believe what was really said...
Viedo tape speaks volumes!

You aren't any better Trix. You hate all conservatives and that has blinded your sense of reason.Bush went in because of Saddam. Was Saddam really that wonderful of a leader that he could do no wrong?

Your sense of reason is really screwed because THE FIRST REASON WAS TO GET THE WMD's!!!!
Are you that BLINDED by your political views that you didn't hear a darn thing Powell said to the UN? That CONdi Rice said in her speeches before going into Iraq??? How about Darth Cheney???
If we don't get in there and get those WMD's it could come in the form of a MUSHROOM CLOUD!
WAKE UP!
Is your memory that bad???
WOW!
Your so blinded by your REICH WINGED MINDED VIEWS that you don't listen, read or hear anything.
And for the 1,000,000th time Wayner.... I'm a CARD CARRIN' Republican that believes in TRUE Republican values!
To you DUHbya can't do any wrong... Hitler syndrome!
THINK FOR YOURSELF!
COME ON WAYNER join the rest of the world that thinks for themselves!
Your truly a HORRIBLE American....

"I'm a CARD CARRIN' Republican that believes in TRUE Republican values!"

Trixter.

For all your bluster, would you mind stating exactly where you differ significantly with democrats?

Herb

My question exactly. How in the world can you call yourself a Republican if you disagree with everything we are for, Trix? You never did say what was the last Republican you voted for.

Wayner if you could read English you would have read that I last voted for GDUHbya against Clinton.... But since you don't read anyone's posts you wouldn't know....

I stand for....

SMALLER Government (which DUHbya and Co. haven't)

FISCAL Responsibility (DUHBya and Co. don't know what that means)

SMALLER Social programs

Tax reform (DUHbya and Co. have screwed that up too!)
When the average American family has to work more than four months out of every year to fund all levels of government, it’s time to change the tax system, to make it simpler, flatter, and fairer for everyone.

Successful SMALL Businesses

Education Reform (DUHbya and Co. drop the ball again with NO Child left behind? WORTHLESS!)

NEW Technology in the armed forces

Family MATTERS

Upholding the RIGHTS of ALL Americans!

Saving Social Security for future generations to come

Improving Medicare

Affordable health care for EVERY American!

Political Reform (DUHbya and Co. haven't done squat about this)


TRUE Republican issues!

Bush is a good man. Who was the last Republican president you voted for, Trix?

Wayne asked - "Who was the last Republican president you voted for, Trix?"

Trix had already said - twice - "Wayner if you could read English you would have read that I last voted for GDUHbya against Clinton.... But since you don't read anyone's posts you wouldn't know...."

Does that not count or something? Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over when you have been shown the answer?

"Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over when you have been shown the answer?"

Probably for the same reason people keeps responding to a troll over and over again.

Waynes beloved ratty bookmark in his bible:

Resolution 1441
http://www.un.int/usa/sres-iraq.htm

(Of course it's over 4 years old now, and who here believes Wayne can even comprehend it, since he can't even remember or absorb what Trix posted 5 minutes earlier, and about 100 times over the years)

Author: Chickenjuggler
Monday, December 11, 2006 - 9:30 pm


Wayne asked - "Who was the last Republican president you voted for, Trix?"

Trix had already said - twice - "Wayner if you could read English you would have read that I last voted for GDUHbya against Clinton.... But since you don't read anyone's posts you wouldn't know...."

Does that not count or something? Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over when you have been shown the answer?

----
There were two Bushes. Does he mean Bush41? He wasn't too clear and he had me confused.

Author: Mrs_merkin
Monday, December 11, 2006 - 9:47 pm


Waynes beloved ratty bookmark in his bible:

Resolution 1441
http://www.un.int/usa/sres-iraq.htm

(Of course it's over 4 years old now, and who here believes Wayne can even comprehend it, since he can't even remember or absorb what Trix posted 5 minutes earlier, and about 100 times over the years)

---
If you notice that says nothing about Bush being supposed to find Saddam's WMD's It says Iraq was supposed to declare them and Saddam did not.

So it looks like the liars were the libs and not Bush, huh?

Huh? Say what?


And a question for the knowledgable ones here: Do we (US) let anyone (UN?) come in and inspect all our toys whenever they want?

Did you read what you posted Mrs M? It said that Iraq was supposed to declare its weapons and allow the UN inspectors in! Where does it mention Bush at all? would you tell me?

"There were two Bushes. Does he mean Bush41? He wasn't too clear and he had me confused."

"Wayner if you could read English you would have read that I last voted for GDUHbya against Clinton."

Seems pretty obvious to the rest of us which Bush that was.

Which Bush ran against Clinton?

Not that hard, Squeaky.

There were NO WMD, and the Pentagon said so. I'll take their word for it, not your's, Wayne.

Author: Waynes_world
Monday, December 11, 2006 - 12:13 pm


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

Pete why do you make stuff up? There were 500 wmds found. Saddam, your hero, was supposed to declare them? Tell me where resolution 1441 mentions the weapons being up to Bush to find in order to go into Iraq?

Author: Brianl
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 6:39 am


"There were two Bushes. Does he mean Bush41? He wasn't too clear and he had me confused."

"Wayner if you could read English you would have read that I last voted for GDUHbya against Clinton."

Seems pretty obvious to the rest of us which Bush that was.

Which Bush ran against Clinton?

Not that hard, Squeaky.
--------
Both Bush41 and Clinton said that Saddam had WMDS.

Focus Wayne.

"Author: Brianl
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 6:39 am


"There were two Bushes. Does he mean Bush41? He wasn't too clear and he had me confused."

"Wayner if you could read English you would have read that I last voted for GDUHbya against Clinton."

Seems pretty obvious to the rest of us which Bush that was.

Which Bush ran against Clinton?

Not that hard, Squeaky.
--------
Both Bush41 and Clinton said that Saddam had WMDS."

That's not the answer to the question at hand sir.

BTW, those WMDs "found" were known about and reported by the Iraqis, and known about by the UN, while Clinton was in office. They were, indeed, accounted for and once again, in such poor shape that they couldn't have been used anyway.

But that's of no matter to you. You will continue to shove rhetoric down our throats, throw crap against the wall and see if it sticks.

Yes it is the question at hand. You think only Bush jr. had the responsibility of finding the WMD's. What you didn't show me is where the resolution 1441 says anywhere that it was up to Bush to find them. You and the rest of the liberals are the only ones shoving rhetoric down people's throats. Your problem is you can't handle it when you are proven wrong. I showed where 500 WMD's were found and just like I predicted you can't own up to your mistake.Rather than admit it you will say anything to justify blaming Bush for causing the terror in Iraq.

Author: Chickenjuggler
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 12:17 pm


Focus Wayne.

----

AGREEMENT, CJ!! Thats what you want.

"You and the rest of the liberals are the only ones shoving rhetoric down people's throats. Your problem is you can't handle it when you are proven wrong. I showed where 500 WMD's were found and just like I predicted you can't own up to your mistake.Rather than admit it you will say anything to justify blaming Bush for causing the terror in Iraq."

1. For the 500th time, I am not liberal.
2. Again, those WMDs were known of before Bush was there. You are rehashing an OLD story, one that has zero relevance here.
3. I DO blame Bush for the terror in Iraq. He led us to war under false pretenses, and continues to get thousands of innocent Iraqis and American troops needlessly killed. Clinton KNEW of these WMDs before he was out of office, and he didn't invade. Geez, ya think that maybe Bubba knew what the hell he was doing? Dubya sure doesn't.

And I am still waiting on the answer from you as to which Bush ran against Clinton in 1992? Are you dumb, or just stupid sir?

Why? Do you honestly think Saddam is the hero and Bush is the villian? Thats really sick that you think that way. You blame everyone but the person who caused the terror, Saddam.Would you rather him be president than Bush? It wouldn't surprize me. And your last statement wont get any answer from me unless you take back your insult. You hurt yourself when you insult others.

And Clinton did bomb Iraq without the approval of Congress. The thing is Clinton is as innocent as the driven snow. Why? Its because he's a liberal Democrat.

"1. For the 500th time, I am not liberal.
2. Again, those WMDs were known of before Bush was there. You are rehashing an OLD story, one that has zero relevance here.
3. I DO blame Bush for the terror in Iraq. He led us to war under false pretenses, and continues to get thousands of innocent Iraqis and American troops needlessly killed. Clinton KNEW of these WMDs before he was out of office, and he didn't invade. Geez, ya think that maybe Bubba knew what the hell he was doing? Dubya sure doesn't.

And I am still waiting on the answer from you as to which Bush ran against Clinton in 1992? Are you dumb, or just stupid sir?"

Where in here did I insult you? You mean that last little line?

Again, I am asking a question. Seeing how you post and what you think, methinks a legitimate question.

I never once said Saddam was a hero, thanks for once again putting words in my mouth. I willingly say that Bush IS a villain though, and I have a lot of company, even fellow Republicans, who say the same thing.

Deane- "Faux" as in a play on "Fox", meaning false or imitation.

"cite", as in:
3: refer to [syn: reference]
4: repeat a passage from; "He quoted the Bible to her [syn: quote]
5: advance evidence for [syn: adduce, abduce]

As in "here is the (supposed) evidence supporting my (back-assward) opinion".

Author: Brianl
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 1:15 pm


"1. For the 500th time, I am not liberal.
2. Again, those WMDs were known of before Bush was there. You are rehashing an OLD story, one that has zero relevance here.
3. I DO blame Bush for the terror in Iraq. He led us to war under false pretenses, and continues to get thousands of innocent Iraqis and American troops needlessly killed. Clinton KNEW of these WMDs before he was out of office, and he didn't invade. Geez, ya think that maybe Bubba knew what the hell he was doing? Dubya sure doesn't.

And I am still waiting on the answer from you as to which Bush ran against Clinton in 1992? Are you dumb, or just stupid sir?"

Where in here did I insult you? You mean that last little line?

Again, I am asking a question. Seeing how you post and what you think, methinks a legitimate question.

I never once said Saddam was a hero, thanks for once again putting words in my mouth. I willingly say that Bush IS a villain though, and I have a lot of company, even fellow Republicans, who say the same thing.

----
Why do I doubt that you are a Republican at all? I know of many Republicans who don't think Bush is any villian. And you don't have to say Saddam is your hero. The tone of your comments prove that is the case. You blame everyone but him for the cause of the problems in Iraq. And I wonder why it is, Herb, that liberals never want to admit that they're liberal?

Are you dumb, or just stupid sir?"


Thats an insult, Brian. Why don't you put yourself in my shoes.

" "Are you dumb, or just stupid sir?"


Thats an insult, Brian. Why don't you put yourself in my shoes."

Would you rather me shout insults about your mother and swear? If you so desire, I CAN stoop to that level ... though it's generally against my nature.

As far as me and my GOP viewpoints ... here goes.

-I believe in a much smaller central government, with minimal rule over people and more rule put at the state and local level.

-I am VERY pro-Capital Punishment.

-I believe in helping people help themselves rather than just giving and giving to those who CAN, but WON'T do better for themselves.

-I personally like the idea of privatizing Social Security, or giving people the option to invest their money in their own private accounts instead of having it taken out of their checks now, knowing they probably will never see it. (Again, this should be VOLUNTARY.)

-I am deadset against socialized medicine.

-I am very pro-small business and, for the most part, anti-union. (They had a place long ago in the annals of this great nation, IMO they are the biggest cause of outsourcing.)

-I welcome immigrants here legally, and feel that they should enjoy the rights of everyone else. I do feel very strongly about those here ILLEGALLY.

-I believe that we should be good stewards of the environment, and conserve natural resources. (Hey, you don't get "conservative" without "conserve"!!)

-I am against the estate tax, and the capital gains tax.

-I believe largely in the Ronald Reagan mantra of "Government is not the solution to the problem, Government IS the problem!"

Do you want more?

It's sad that you question the type of person I am because I don't think exactly like your Church does. It's sad that you have to be critical of others who dare to think and act for themselves. And it seems to be a MAJORITY of people who are self-avowed Republicans in here who are critical of the Bush administration. Trix, Joamon, KSKD, myself, that's four. You, Herb and Deane seem to be the only supporters, and Deane even makes sense and logic against some of Bush's many dunderhead moves ... that's three. OF COURSE you know many Republicans who think Bush walks on water - you associate with people in your Church and the like, and they probably have the same thoughts as you.

Try looking OUTSIDE your little cocoon. It may amaze you.

Why did the Republican vote for Bush in large numbers in 2004? has it occured to you that there are liberal Republicans too? The only ones who hate Bush the way they do are the ones I have seen on this forum. McCain is a liberal who I don't agree with much but at least he doesn't hate Bush. I think if you really were a Republican you would have more respect for Bush and for Christianity than you do.Even liberal Republicans have more respect for my faith than you do. And I doubt if a true Republican would go around and insult everyone he disagrees with .
Whats sad for me is the attitude you have toward devot Christians that you do. One should be free to be one in this country. That seems to offend you. I don't know of many Conservative Republicans who are offended by a Christian who acts like one and who takes a stand on moral issues the way I do. You seem to be making a case for moral relativism. And you need to realize that when you insult people you don't like you hurt yourself.

And when you dodge answering simple questions you destroy your credibility and that of what you stand for! Also a "gee I was wrong" once in a while would not be below you....or would it!

Fuck you and your fucking faith. I'm sick and fucking tired of hearing about your fucking faith, you fucking piece of dogshit.

TAKE IT SOMEHWERE ELSE, OR YOUR HOME ADDRESS GETS POSTED FOR ALL TO SEE!

"McCain is a liberal who I don't agree with much but at least he doesn't hate Bush. I think if you really were a Republican you would have more respect for Bush and for Christianity than you do.Even liberal Republicans have more respect for my faith than you do. And I doubt if a true Republican would go around and insult everyone he disagrees with .
Whats sad for me is the attitude you have toward devot Christians that you do."

1. Are you SURE McCain LIKES Bush? Do you NOT remember 2000? McCain was loyal to his party and publicly supported Bush after the nomination was his, but he didn't come out and say he LIKED Bush. There is much disdain between those two. You see, McCain can put aside differences and try to work with someone for the common good.

2. I have plenty of respect for Christianity. I have plenty of respect for Christians. I was raised Christian. I STILL believe. My mother is a Christian (which I am sure is impossible for you to believe, a gay Christian). I have no respect for people like you who go out of your way to ruin the good name of Christianity with your incessant Bible-thumping and using your Christianity to justify your bigoted thought process. That I have ZERO tolerance for.

I also have zero tolerance for our President. I respect the office of the President of the United States, the position itself greatly. I cannot have any respect for the man currently in that position however, because of what he has turned that position into. It can be said that at no time in the history of our great nation has the President of the United States been held with such contempt and disdain worldwide. Arguably our great ally, Britain, has released public polls of their people that state that they view the current President of the United States as the "most dangerous man in the world." This includes Kim Il-Jong and the President of Iran. And this is from our BEST FRIENDS! You want ME to respect THAT?

"Whats sad for me is the attitude you have toward devot Christians that you do. One should be free to be one in this country. That seems to offend you. I don't know of many Conservative Republicans who are offended by a Christian who acts like one and who takes a stand on moral issues the way I do. You seem to be making a case for moral relativism. And you need to realize that when you insult people you don't like you hurt yourself."

Again, I don't hate any devout Christians. Some of my best friends are devout Christians. A good friend and ex-employee of mine is in seminary school right now, he wishes to be a priest. I don't know if I have ever met a person in my life with more faith than this man, and he has the intelligence to have a legitimate conversation with me on many issues, from the Bush administration to, yes, gay marriage. I don't know if there is a person on this Earth I have more respect for. He has shown me respect and has earned it back in spades. We don't agree on everything, but he doesn't hide behind his faith and use it as a bully pulpit to hate and discriminate on others like YOU do. So, again, am I hating Christians here?

Also, as stated before, I am not an ultra-conservative Republican. I tend to be to the left of that.

I don't have a problem with your stand on moral issues. We agree to disagree. Don't come across and put words in my mouth and tell me that I hate Christians and Christianity and that my hero is Saddam and that I am a Communist and everything else because I don't think EXACTLY LIKE YOU.

You do a tremendous job of pissing off people in here, good people like Reinstatepete and Mrs. Merkin and KSKD and Joamon and Trixter. I really think you ENJOY it, and that's your problem, not ours. The vast majority of us think that this would honestly be a better place without you.

Think about that for a while, sir. When the majority is against one, the problem isn't with the majority.

It's with the one.

In this case, that one is YOU.

Your problem is me is that I am not a moral relativist like you are. I believe in absolutes. Thats the problem you have with both Herb and me. You can't stand anyone who thinks that there absolutes in the world. I showed you that there were 500 WMD's in Iraq but did you accept that? Not in your life. Just like I knew you wouldn't. No matter what resolution 1441 says you continue to blame Bush for all of Iraq's problems and you give your hero Saddam a free pass. Your problem is with what I believe in my heart. You want everyone in the world to think the way you do. Everything is relative according to you. Any other view is homophobic. What I want to know is what your excuse is for not believing in God. You need to realize that God will deal with me and Herb. I think its strange you haven't mentioned him at all because we both believe in the same Jesus. The problem is not with me the problem is with your own unbelief.

Reinstatepete and Mrs. Merkin and KSKD and Joamon and Trixter.

Joamon won't be around for a while (he is here in spirit though). He kind of got in some trouble the other night.....the night of the drunken lunatic! That was just a bad night anyway you look at it!

Author: Darktemper
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 2:56 pm


And when you dodge answering simple questions you destroy your credibility and that of what you stand for! Also a "gee I was wrong" once in a while would not be below you....or would it!

----
Why don't you believe? I gave you evidence there were 500 WMD's. Why do people have such a problem with evidence thats right in front of them? Its like I said before. There is no bigger waste of time than showing proof to a liberal.

"Thats the problem you have with both Herb and me."

I have never once had a problem with Herb. Herb has yet to accuse me of being pro-terrorist or hating Christianity and wanting it banned from America. Herb and I disagree on a lot of things, and he's rather abrupt and abrasive and can rub people the wrong way, but he states what he says and he backs it up. You don't.

"I showed you that there were 500 WMD's in Iraq but did you accept that? Not in your life. Just like I knew you wouldn't. No matter what resolution 1441 says you continue to blame Bush for all of Iraq's problems and you give your hero Saddam a free pass."

And it was pointed out to you numerous times that those 500 WMD's had been known about for YEARS by the UN and they were completely unusable.

And yes, I DO blame Bush for the problems in Iraq. I don't blame anyone BUT him. It was HIS ill-advised invasion and occupation of Iraq that put us in the mess we are in now.

I am also on record as saying that 1) Saddam is NOT my hero and 2) the region is a much better place long-term WITHOUT him. He deserves to die for his actions IMO. You can go back and see where I recommend that he be turned over to the families of his victims so they can do with him as they wish. Yeah, that makes Saddam my hero. Once again, putting words in my mouth.

"Your problem is with what I believe in my heart. You want everyone in the world to think the way you do."

Again, I don't care what others believe. My problem is when YOU shove your beliefs down MY throat.

"Everything is relative according to you. Any other view is homophobic. What I want to know is what your excuse is for not believing in God. You need to realize that God will deal with me and Herb. I think its strange you haven't mentioned him at all because we both believe in the same Jesus. The problem is not with me the problem is with your own unbelief."

I will never understand those who use their religion to justify their homophobic thoughts. We agree to disagree.

I also have said repeatedly that I DO believe in God. I believe that God created us all equal, and that He loves us all unconditionally, without regard for sexual orientation. Why would He create gay people if He hated them, as you profess?

And as far as Herb, see above.

When law's are absolute there can be no room for fairness!

When belief's are absolute there can be no room for tolerance!

When a person believe's in absolute's they are never wrong absolutely in their eye's!

Absolute's are absolutely absolute in that they are absolutely unrealistic to live by this day and age!

Good thing that Jesus did not believe in absolute's and only forgive those faithful to him!

Wayne Balzer
230 SE XXst Ave.

Author: Brianl
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 3:44 pm


"Thats the problem you have with both Herb and me."

I have never once had a problem with Herb. Herb has yet to accuse me of being pro-terrorist or hating Christianity and wanting it banned from America. Herb and I disagree on a lot of things, and he's rather abrupt and abrasive and can rub people the wrong way, but he states what he says and he backs it up. You don't.

"I showed you that there were 500 WMD's in Iraq but did you accept that? Not in your life. Just like I knew you wouldn't. No matter what resolution 1441 says you continue to blame Bush for all of Iraq's problems and you give your hero Saddam a free pass."

And it was pointed out to you numerous times that those 500 WMD's had been known about for YEARS by the UN and they were completely unusable.


I have showed you that makes absolutely no difference. Saddam was supposed to declare the WMDs. It wasn't up to Bush. There is nothing in resolution 1441 that mentions that Bush was supposed to find the WMD's. Where is Bush mentioned at all in the resolution? That was why we have Iraq


And yes, I DO blame Bush for the problems in Iraq. I don't blame anyone BUT him. It was HIS ill-advised invasion and occupation of Iraq that put us in the mess we are in now.

that contradicts your statement below. Saddam gets a free pass from you I guess. Would you rather he were the president instead of Bush?


I am also on record as saying that 1) Saddam is NOT my hero and 2) the region is a much better place long-term WITHOUT him. He deserves to die for his actions IMO. You can go back and see where I recommend that he be turned over to the families of his victims so they can do with him as they wish. Yeah, that makes Saddam my hero. Once again, putting words in my mouth.

but why do you think Bush caused all of the evil in Iraq? the enemies killed the soldiers not him.

"Your problem is with what I believe in my heart. You want everyone in the world to think the way you do."

Again, I don't care what others believe. My problem is when YOU shove your beliefs down MY throat.

you and the other liberals are the only ones doing the forcing. I said liberal and I meant liberal. You have too much hate toward Bush to be any conservative. The problem isn't forcing here, the problem is that you don't believe.

"Everything is relative according to you. Any other view is homophobic. What I want to know is what your excuse is for not believing in God. You need to realize that God will deal with me and Herb. I think its strange you haven't mentioned him at all because we both believe in the same Jesus. The problem is not with me the problem is with your own unbelief."

I will never understand those who use their religion to justify their homophobic thoughts. We agree to disagree.

homophobia and absolutes are one and the same thing, isn't that right, Brian? You never answer my question: Is the only cure for homo moral relativism? Answer that please!


I also have said repeatedly that I DO believe in God. I believe that God created us all equal, and that He loves us all unconditionally, without regard for sexual orientation. Why would He create gay people if He hated them, as you profess?
for petes sake can't you discuss equality without bringing up homosexuality? I think not.

And as far as Herb, see above.

----
See what above? God condemns homosexuality, both in the Bible and the Talmud and in the Koran.

God condemn's Hypocrisy and Bigotry as well!

" "And as far as Herb, see above.

----
See what above? God condemns homosexuality, both in the Bible and the Talmud and in the Koran." "

Maybe you missed the part about Herb I typed above:

"I have never once had a problem with Herb. Herb has yet to accuse me of being pro-terrorist or hating Christianity and wanting it banned from America. Herb and I disagree on a lot of things, and he's rather abrupt and abrasive and can rub people the wrong way, but he states what he says and he backs it up. You don't."

"but why do you think Bush caused all of the evil in Iraq? the enemies killed the soldiers not him."

Because Bush PUT THE TROOPS THERE. **THAT** is why he is directly responsible for their deaths in this unjustified war. Our troop involvement is also involved and responsible for over 600,000 Iraqi deaths. I suppose that ISN'T Bush's fault?

I guess I'm one of those tree-hugging bed wetters. I now worship Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton. Wayne says so, it MUST be true.

Excuse me folks, I need to go see where I can sign up at the Green Party headquarters to go do some campaigning. Everyone's favorite socialistic champion of all labor causes, Ralph Nader, is gearing up for a run in 2008! Out of my way now, I have to go be a good little "liberal"! I am after all, Wayne said so himself!

Pete, you may have the address of a Wayne Marlin Balzer, but how to you know that this "Wayne" is not actually using that guy's name?

You are no Conservative, thats obvious to me,Brian. I think the Green Party would probably be a good fit for you.

Again you give Saddam a free pass. Why do you think he did absolutely nothing to cause the mess in Iraq? Again I ask why do you want him to be president and not Bush?

And the problem is with neither me nor Herb its with your unbelief and your intolerance toward people who believe in absolutes and who don't share your moral relativism. I notice you haven't addressed that at all.

Author: Darktemper
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 4:06 pm


God condemn's Hypocrisy and Bigotry as well!

----
He condemns homosexuality. Which is what you probably mean by "bigotry."

"And the problem is with neither me nor Herb its with your unbelief and your intolerance toward people who believe in absolutes and who don't share your moral relativism. I notice you haven't addressed that at all."

I believe in absolutes.

I absolutely believe that Christians who use their religion to discriminate against others are not very good Christians.

I absolutely believe that you questioning me how I raise my children, or Mrs. Merkin's patriotism by suggesting that she WANTED Pearl Harbor to happen, or questioning anyone else's patriotism and love of this country just because they don't agree with YOU, is wrong, and apologies are in order.

I absolutely believe that you continue to show yourself as a simpleton, small-minded person incapable of compassion.

Again, I don't have a problem with "people of absolutes". I don't have a problem with Herb at all. I don't have a problem with those who ARE liberal in here (and I don't mean liberal in a negative sense!) I don't have a problem with people of opposing viewpoints.

I DO have a problem with people who just don't get it. I DO have a problem with people like YOU in that sense.

It was nice of Reinstate to quote the vice president there for a moment. Sometimes one has to use the offical language of the Bush adminstration to get a point across to a Bush supporter.

Author: Brianl
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 4:25 pm


"And the problem is with neither me nor Herb its with your unbelief and your intolerance toward people who believe in absolutes and who don't share your moral relativism. I notice you haven't addressed that at all."

I believe in absolutes.

I absolutely believe that Christians who use their religion to discriminate against others are not very good Christians.

I absolutely believe that you questioning me how I raise my children, or Mrs. Merkin's patriotism by suggesting that she WANTED Pearl Harbor to happen, or questioning anyone else's patriotism and love of this country just because they don't agree with YOU, is wrong, and apologies are in order.

I absolutely believe that you continue to show yourself as a simpleton, small-minded person incapable of compassion.

Again, I don't have a problem with "people of absolutes". I don't have a problem with Herb at all. I don't have a problem with those who ARE liberal in here (and I don't mean liberal in a negative sense!) I don't have a problem with people of opposing viewpoints.

I DO have a problem with people who just don't get it. I DO have a problem with people like YOU in that sense.

-----
I don't think you are telling the truth at all. The only pushing that is going on is from you and the left on this forum. Its my blind agreement that you care about and thats it. Once I agree with everything you and the other liberals say that solves all of my problems.
What you need to realize is that what you reject is not me its the Jesus in me.

"What you need to realize is that what you reject is not me its the Jesus in me."

Wayne:

Jesus loves you.

Everyone else thinks you're an a$$hole.

There is no Jesus in you at all. If Jesus was here, he'd kick you in the sack.

Skep, it was more of a play off of "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles" except I wasn't waiting in line to rent car.

You need Jesus in your heart. Let God deal with me and Herb.

Keep it up and it will be more than just god dealing with you...

Wayne, if your lifeless body is found at home, I think we will have a suspect.

You and Pete just need to ignore each other.

That sure looks like a threat to me. I let Dan know.

Pete is over the line this time.

Pete may be over the line but Wayne is right there with him because he pushed him there!

Wayne as far as what I think a Bigot is....look in a mirror buddy!

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. The origin of the word in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of religious hypocrite, especially a woman.

Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to their prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or world views.


Now someone get some damn MORPHINE for this headache!!!!

Author: Darktemper
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 5:34 pm


Pete may be over the line but Wayne is right there with him because he pushed him there!

It wasn't anything I said but what God said through me. I am just his mouthpiece. I say whatever he wants me to.

Wayne as far as what I think a Bigot is....look in a mirror buddy!

I have never had any problem with that. I love everybody. I think we need to define a bigot in some other terms besides somebody who thinks homosexuality is a sin. That seems to be all that matters here.

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. The origin of the word in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of religious hypocrite, especially a woman.

Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to their prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or world views.
thats fine and good but nobody can bring up bigotry without mentioning homosexuality. Its like there can be no other connection to bigotry other than that. Thats what I find so frustrating. Can bigotry be thought of in any other sense?


Now someone get some damn MORPHINE for this headache!!!!

You need some advil I would say

Wayne, if your lifeless body is found at home, I think we will have a suspect.

Hmmm...was it Pastor Ebel in the dining room with a bible, or Mom Balzer in the kitchen with a Popeil Pocket Stun Gun?

Wayne, you posted a threat here just a few days ago, remember?

Wayne
You believe in absolutes....that is a from of a Bigot....everyone has some of this in them....what others here object to is that you are voicing your bigotry to us and if we don't see it your way then we are all leftists.

Your own personal bigotry is your own business until you try to ram it down our throats. I thought a christian promoted peace and goodwill. You my friend seem to thrive on stirring the pot and stokeing the fire...not very christian like to promote hate and discontent towards you and moreso towards faith in GOD! And in all honesty it seems to be you always playing the Homosexual card all of the time. You seem enthralled by it......it's OK...go ahead and come out of the closet!

Pleeease...Advil would be like shooting a BB gun at a TANK!

Demerol would be the only thing to help right now......or......hey Pete...you need a stress relief.....just knock me the hell out would ya!

Didn't someone state here once that they met Wayne before? Who was that?

Wayner IGNORANTLY said>>>
He condemns homosexuality. Which is what you probably mean by "bigotry."

You are truly an ignorant man Wayner!!!!

talk about johnny come lately . . .

Skep said>>>
talk about johnny come lately . . .

HEY!
I've been Christmas shopping the last 2 weeks and went to the beach house to check the damage!

the time to check for damage is AFTER the storm trix!

88 MPH winds last week and the roof was Fed up....
The neighbors said our place made it through last night just fine...