http://www.heifer.org/

So what are your plans for Christmas gift giving this year? My family is planning on giving to them insead of exchanging gifts. I think its a good thing to be involved in, don't you?

Salvation Army.

Birthright.

Herb

I'm donating to the ACLU and Planned Parenthood.

What about Toy Guns for Tots?

Wayne - my mother in law did something like that, she sponsored a child somewhere in Central America for several years ... she donated a couple of thousand dollars over the years, and got reports from the child herself (translated by her teacher) sent to her as well as health reports, etc.

My mother in law passed away four days before Christmas last year. One of the toughest things my wife had to do was to write this girl a letter saying that she was no longer with us, but she also sent $2500 to the child's family to make sure she was taken care of.

I'm about as big of a Scrooge as you can get, I generally hate the holidays ... but it's stuff like that that makes it worthwhile.

Looks like a good cause but I have this mental picture of Wayne (or it could be anyone) sitting in church and one of the "Heiffer Ring Tones" on his cell phone suddenly goes off at full volume.

!

Meth for neo-CONs is my choice for charity!

I think you have been using some of that yourself.

Yeah Wayne, Heifer sounds like a good idea. Guess we agree on something.

My wife and I have given to the Heifer project in the past. We also sponsor a child in Ghana through World Vision.

BrianL..my mom passed away just 2 weeks ago. It's been very hard but she left a wonderful legacy.

Chris - I deeply apologize for your loss. I have wondered where you have been, that explains it.

It's tough this time of year, my wife went through hell last Christmas.

Sorry to hear that, Chris.

Herb

Same here. I lost my dad to cancer so I know what its like to lose somebody

Thanks guys.

I also noticed you missing Chris.I have known you for over 10 years now and if your mother was half the person you are,she was a great person.I'm guessing your still trying to be what she was .My prayers are with you and your family.

Hey Chris, sorry to hear of your loss. I really appreciate your insight on this board, and although I don't know you outside of this board, I can tell that your folks did a good job raising you by reading your insights.

Glad you are back Chris!

I feel for your loss. My Family has been through that in recent times. It's tough, but it gets better quicker than you think!

Thanks to you all. Each word of encouragement and condolence really does make a difference. When I am asked how I am doing I just respond with “moment by moment.”

Joe-If I can be half the person my mom was I will consider myself lucky and blessed. She was so understated in her strength but so encouraging. She never raised her voice to any of us and that is saying something. I could certainly go on and on about her and maybe one day I will, but for now your kind words, thoughts and prayers do mean a great deal to myself and my family.

Doug- I know time will heal the heaviness that is so prevalent in my heart and I need to be patient. But I also know grief has a purpose as difficult as it can be.

My posting maybe sporadic for a while and my "fight" for my personal beliefs are somewhat on hold. But I know time is the great equalizer along with my personal faith. Thank you for your respect of my mom and of me.

Oh man. Take the time that is necessary. This stuff will still be here. (will it ever!)

Your Mom stands proud Chris. Do tell us later, when you can.

Hang in there Chris, I will be praying for you. I went through cancer myself in 1985 and its no fun.

WW said>>>>
I think you have been using some of that yourself.

STEP AWAY FROM THE METH PIPE WAYNER!!!

I don't understand something here. I bring up something that I think would be a positive thing to do and you still can't keep your mind off of politics. Have you ever given anything to anyone?

Take a hike, jerk.

Jesus loves you.

Fuck you.

Reinstate.

And you're all about communication?

You've just shown that your ability to tolerate others' views is all talk.

Is there something about the Gospels that makes you angry?

Herb

Herb what makes Pete angry is the Gospel we both believe in! Pete shows that he can't tolerate people who don't agree with by swearing.

We're beyond communication.

And, I can't tolerate idiots Wayne, that's why I can't tolerate you. It actually has nothing to do with your views, otherwise I would be telling Herb to fuck off as well, and to the best of my knowledge, I've yet to do that. You're the only one I've felt the need to say this to on this board.

You haven't called me a nazi yet either, so thanks for that as well.

It HASN'T been easy, but on this side, I've honestly attempted to distance myself from my 'pinko commie' accusations of long ago.

Sometimes it's VERY difficult here.

Herb

Author: Reinstatepete
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 3:55 pm


We're beyond communication.

And, I can't tolerate idiots Wayne, that's why I can't tolerate you. It actually has nothing to do with your views, otherwise I would be telling Herb to fuck off as well, and to the best of my knowledge, I've yet to do that. You're the only one I've felt the need to say this to on this board.

----
Jesus loves you. Thats all I will say to you.

Uh...Herb and Wayne. I too am a Christian and Pete has never cursed at me. We have disagreed about religion but he has always shown me the utmost respect for my beliefs.

With all due respect, that's because you soft-peddle the unpopular parts.

'No one comes to the Father but by me' is not a popular part.

Herb

I believe you are a Christian, Chris. But I think Pete's problem isn't with me. He probably had a bad experience with somebody like me a long time ago. He probably thinks all evangel Christians are evil.

Herb-

Maybe you hard peddle too much. It creates a wall which in turn creates other problems.

As a Christian I am called to be a bridge builder. If that is a soft-peddle to you so be it. But I believe it is how Jesus would handle things.

I understand your point.

However, we are told to preach the Gospel unto all nations.

Unless the lost first realize they are lost, good luck in convincing them of the need for God.

Herb

When my dad was a young preacher in Spearville Kansas he got some great advice from a long time member of this small congregation. First off my dad was only a couple of years out of seminary and was attempting to make his mark as a pastor. I wouldn't say he did a "hell fire and brimstone" approach but was more a "look how bad you are".

This parishioner pulled him aside and said, "you don't have to tell us how bad we are, we already know that."

St. Francis of Assisi says it best: "Preach the gospel throughout the world, and if necessary use words."

It's all about establishing relationships. When you push too hard you get pushed back. Is that really ministry or a tug of war? Once my dad realized that being a pastor wasn't about preaching the bible, it was living it out and listening to his constituency.

Sometimes Herb we simply need to shut up and let the Holy Spirit do its job.

This position is hard to top.

Herb, want to know exactly why I'm not a believer today?

Go grab Wayne and look hard --really hard, in the mirror! I'm dead serious. Being completely honest here because the words Chris just wrote would do your cause to spread the word a whole lotta solid good.

I'm actually somewhat dismayed at having lost my faith. Many things in my life would be easier to reason through, if this were not true, but it is. It is because:

-I do not need anybody to tell me what my value in this world is! I'm great, strive to do what I do well, and have been selfless in my deeds for a majority of my time here. I've got exactly zero worries in these regards.

-If God is perfect and all powerful, he does not need to show it by acting like a five year old kid. From the posts I see here, it's almost if God is the one with a confidence problem! This approach does not add up --and I put forward here the idea that it will never add up to anyone with a brain that actually works full time.

-The words of Chris, Sutton, and others here are good to read. They talk about things that make the world a better and more harmonious place. They speak of things that build people up and encourage them to be better than they are today. In short, they speak of a profound enlightenment that is tempting and more than worth solid discussion!

From what I read here, and in my e-mails to some people off board, I see lives that are being lived in a true and just way. That's compelling in that actually doing this is very difficult for anyone. Their very existance in this world is a light that shines for others to look upon and wonder just where it comes from. Call it just good people, if you want. I'm not trying to put them on some sort of holier than thou platform, but instead just trying to articulate the best way I know how, the simple idea that their lives ring true.

When I did believe, this was the witness I was taught early on. You live the life of Christ, not smack others over the head with the Bible of man! In this, the word is spread every moment, every day, every act in all times. That's being a witness. The Bible, frankly, is a witness to a thing greater than our mere words can describe. In this is is, known to be less than perfect.

Later on, I was encourged to witness in the manner I see you and Wayne doing. It's inconsistant and not defensible, given the core ideals your Christ is supposed to stand for.

You judge, you deny, you lie, you dodge, you insult, you threaten, you manupulate, you hate, you make good people cry and feel good about it because they might then find Christ out of who knows what horrible mindset! (I have other words for these things, but I'm trying very hard to lead by example here and keep the high ground, so that's all on that.)

I have friends in my life, who are similar in character and overall poise, to these two. They are the very best people I know. I feel no shame around them, only the potential for enlightenment I may choose to one day again share!

Despite these troubles, I strive for those things that faith and reason both demand of me. Through hard work I achieve them often and feel really good about that.

Then I read this shit.

You do your faith more harm than good in your deeds here and I can only assume elsewhere too. People like you, prey on the feeble of mind, the tormented or poorly formed people looking for anything other than their own beautiful selves to look up to. For whatever reason, they have so much shame, they respond to you as a beaten child does to the supposedly loving parent.

They see whatever darklight you bring to them out of weakness, ignorance and self-loathing and shame, not for the brilliance of the light shown by others here.

This is horrible --so horrible, I cannot accept it as true and just. Harm is false, if one is to talk about core truths. Therefore, getting the word out in a painful way is never true to the faith you so desire others to feel.

Perhaps, this is a perversion of your faith to heal your own internal issues. Perhaps it just feels good to lord it over others, as if reading that book and going to your favorite place grants you some greater entitlement over others like you and equal to you.

This is arrogance and greed. These too are things that are false and should bring you great shame, yet all I see is perverse pride!

I know my value and my own self and it is good. I have the strength of character and clarity of mind to fully and completely reject any fellowship that depends on me surrendering my value in return for acceptance.

Go ahead and keep thumping! The both of you are here among friends, who tolerate you, not because you are stand for things that are true and just, but because we value our fellowship here just enough to make the exercise in tolerance worth it.

To the others here, who spend time together each day, thank you! Maybe this will pass, BUT IF IT DOES NOT, KNOW YOUR TIME WAS WELL SPENT WITH ME AT LEAST.

I'm gonna continue to try to engage in the best way possible, with people here because I enjoy them. I will tolerate this crap because I enjoy them. I will deal, because I have friends here, worth dealing for.

That is the only reason you, Herb and Wayne, have any audience here at all. Can't you two think about that and reconsider your ongoing exploitation?

I have exactly ONE profane word in that post above.

One.

Profanity is reserved for things one holds in low regard. It is used to describe things in this world that are less than beautiful, and that are beneath worth.

I used that ONE word here to articulate my emotion, surrounding what you two call advocacy, in terms that come nearest to accurate.

This use is defensible, just and true.

Hmmmm.

No posts since about 6:15 last night.

Could it be the plug has been pulled?

Chris_taylor -- I'm very sorry to hear about your mother. And I have to tell you "thanks" for posting the line:

St. Francis of Assisi says it best: "Preach the gospel throughout the world, and if necessary use words."

Sometimes we just have to get our all-too-human brains out of the way to get in touch with divine inspiration!

Missing_kskd, I just read your long post above. Wow, very well said. You know, when I was a young kid in the deep South, I remember hearing preachers who justified racial prejudice using Bible passages.

On second thought, they didn't simply justify it, they pointed out how treating Black people as less than human was God's way and God's plan.

Now I'm not saying anyone on this board believes THAT. I'm just saying you can take sentences in the Bible out of context. How satanic, huh?

Despite my experience, I deny there is no effective advocacy to address this mess. We just maybe are not yet enlightened enough to get it done.

I fear it has been addressed... Wish it could have been through words instead of deeds. I made that mistake here and am better for it.

Perhaps the message will get through. If so, even this way, then all is good. My mind remains open and I will work really hard to keep judgment at bay.

---Thanks! It's better to get it out, then bottle it and act in a rash way. Honesty, though brutal at times, is at least true.

Out of context is perhaps our biggest problem. This, more than anything, is why I will always post strong opinions that counter the Bible as some absolute authority.

It is, itself inconsistant, this makes the body of it something less than true and something more than false. This does not mean it lies beneath worth however.

It embodies faith perfectly in the enigma it presents to all who peer at the pages within. I appreciate this more than I can write here. It also represents our kinds search for a greater truth. This is no small thing!

I've written a lot on this topic, a lot of it pretty tough stuff. Hopefully, the words above also demonstrate the beauty I see and respect I have as well.