I don't know much about this tech-type yet but what I hear is that they are completely copy proof. Is there a significant enhancement to picture quality to warrant the investment in a blue ray player? Or will this become the movie industry HD radio? Cool today....gotta have....not enough support to make it fly.....gone tomorrow.

What do you guy's know of this system?

Nothing is impossible to copy. If something can be rendered to an LCD screen, it can be copied. EASY to copy? No, probably not, but not impossible. Perhaps the threshold will be too high for the average user to copy them without expensive equipment...for a while...

For most people, the picture quality of the average DVD is just fine. Shoot, the picture quality of VHS is still fine for most people. Only a relatively small number of videophiles truly desire a leap in quality beyond today's DVD. There will need to be some other appeal to consumers besides improved picture quality.

Personally I think you should be able to copy any CD or DVD that you purchase strictly as a backup copy. This way say your dvd gets damaged and no longer playable then you have a second copy. Otherwise the manufacturers should bone up on a replacement if you send them a damaged non-playable unit.

HD bluray et al is OVERATED. Without content HD is no better than a regular DVD or VHS for that matter. Crap is still crap whether on DVD or HD formats. Why pay more?

Secondly, as pointed out by andrew, many consumers can't even tell the difference between HD and regular DVD video. In fact, they are led around by the audio track -- which is ALREADY HD in a regular DVD.

The only people that truly benefits from bluray et al are the studios/entertainment industries who stand to make a windfall from gullible Americans replacing their DVD libraries.

For heavens sake people, spend money on better content!!! Sadly though, if enough suckers buy into blu-ray, sooner or later, we'll ALL have to buy these high-priced for no good reason dvds.

JUST SAY NO TO BLU-RAY!

I would defer all questions regarding blu-ray, HD and the like to Deane Johnson... a frequent political contributor here. Deane has a major near-commercial quality home theatre and has spent years sorting through the video hoopla.

Probably no one better qualified, and I hope he'll wade-in on this one.

1. Blu-Ray is owned and licensed by Sony.

2. HD-DVD is owned and licensed by Toshiba.

3. Picture quality is almost identical from identical material.

4. Blu-Ray discs hold more than HD-DVD discs.

5. Blu-Ray has support from about 100 companies, HD-DVD from about 10 or so. This is fluid and subject to change.

6. Cheapest Blu-Ray player at the moment is about $799 street. Cheapest HD-DVD player at the moment is less than $500.

7. Initial HD-DVD players were a bit more buggy than Blu-Ray, but this is changing with firmware updates and 2nd generation units. There is no reason they won't be roughly equal in quality in the long run.

8. HD-DVD got off to a faster start than Blu-Ray as it is closer to old technology, while Blu-Ray is more cutting edge (red laser vs. blue).

9. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have about 5 times more quality than standard DVDs. This will not be apparent on small screens, but will become more significant as the screen size increases. For front projection, which is now becoming as cheap or cheaper than flat panels, it's a big boost.

10. 1080p sets are coming on the market. The new discs are encoded 1080p, so you get maximum quality (assuming equipment is correct all the way through).

11. The copy protection is greater with Blu-Ray than with HD-DVD, so the studios like it better.

12. High Def displays are selling like crazy. As people become more accustomed to high quality, they'll want it for their movies also.

13. This is not the time to purchase either. We don't know which format will win, but I am thinking Blu-Ray will be the one. Prices will drop dramatically over the next 12 months.

14. Opinions as to which will win, and which is better, vary widely.

15. The roll-out of these new formats has been badly handled, especially by Sony, a company now operating like a disfunctional family.

16. Most feel that standard DVDs look noticably better on one of the new high-def players.

17. I haven't purchased into either format yet, waiting until a winner is apparent and prices come down a little further.

18. Hollywood film has something like four times the resolution that even a Blu-Ray disc is capable of, so there is plenty of high-definition material available for release. Even old vintage black and white films look awesome in HD according to those who have viewed them.

At what point will people just ditch discs all together in favor of just having a movie delivered via broadband to your TV?

Rein, since that technology exists, it's certainly a possibility. I don't think anyone knows for sure.

I'd be happy with the download approach if I could pay a fixed monthly fee and download whatever I wanted. Say something like $100 per month and you can watch all the movies you want. I'd want the quality to be the same as Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, however.

It's all about money. The studios will take the route of perceived maximum income along with content protection.

I think that possibility is actually the next step. People aren't quite adopting HD or Blu-Ray as fast as either company liked, and it's this forced format war between the two hi-def content delivery systems that seems to be stunting it.

The Tivo/DVR revolution is so large, at this point, and the number of people buying HDTV's and having literally no clue how to use it, shows me that the picture quality only needs to be good enough (i.e. better than the 16 year old projector monkey at regal cinemas can make it) for the average consumer to sign off on it, and just going to the DVR will be the primary method of getting that fix, as opposed to going to the store and buying discs. the On-Demand HD channels on cable seem more successful than the actual discs are, and DVR's are recording these films just fine.

I think HD-DVD/Blu-Ray will end up our own version of Laserdisc. Adopted just enough to be a visible fringe, but never quite mainstreamed or accepted beyond videophiles. That and the crippling copy-protection schemes are going to hold these things back as well.

As far as the difference between the two, Sony appears to have seriously dropped the ball on the Blu-Ray, as reviews of some discs coming out on both formats seem to show that the picture on the Blu-Ray disc doesn't look as good as the corresponding HD-DVD. Which really sucks because Blu-Ray, specs wise, should be considerably better than HD. And HD, last I checked, actually has more discs out than Blu-Ray. A lot of the studios that pledged support are pledging DUAL support, and the ones that are strictly Blu-Ray are sitting on a lot of their big titles to see if this Format War makes it worth flooding the market.

The PS3 was supposed to be Sony's huge inroad to the HD market, but the players are getting pretty derided, the rollout was mishandled, and Microsoft has introduced a super-cheap HD-DVD add-on for their Xbox 360 (somewhere around 150-200 bucks, depending on where you shop) that already enjoys a 7 million installed user base as compared to Sony's sub 300,000 installed. This plus the fact Sony's Blu-Ray discs aren't anywhere near as impressive as they SHOULD have been sorta kneecaps the Blu-Ray side.

Standard DVD, upscaled to HD resolutions, looks "good enough" for most users, again, which might seriously kneecap HD-DVD's planned market takeover.

And Front Projectors are STARTLINGLY cheap now. I bought my first 3 years ago for about 800 bucks after a series of rebates. Last week I got a new projector for about 300 bucks less SANS REBATES, and the image is easily 3 times better, and while colors don't quite pop like a plasma or LCD, the blacks and depth of picture easily trumps those, and the picture is about 9 feet wide.

Going HD does improve the quality of those displays, but 480p DVD, displayed natively on one of these projectors, is pretty damned film-like as it is. I know I'm out of the HD race for at least another 2-3 years, so I feel fine using DVD resolution images.

What size file would a 2 hour HD movie be?

There are a lot of variables, including compression scheme, audio options, extras, etc.

I should think, and this only a shot in the dark, a 2 hour movie might run 25 to 40 GB, depending on compression type.

Depends on the compression used. It can be anywhere between 10-30 gigs, I believe. I know a friend stored "Attack of the Clones" in HD on his DVR when it played the other day, and it took up about 12 gigs. "Revenge of the Sith" took up around 18. A dual-layer HD-DVD (30 gigs)or a single layer Blu-Ray disc (25 gigs) might compress it differently so that it takes up about 20-25 gigs if they want to ensure high picture quality.

A Dual layer Blu-Ray disc can go up to 50 gigs, so they have more room to play with, but again, it appears they're still stumbling over how to best make use of the bitspace they have.

Here's a pretty good explanation of how Blu-Ray works.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/blu-ray.htm

Why couldn't a movie be emailed to you, then you download it and watch it at your leisure? That's what I would like. Going to the video store blows, and returning the movie afteward sucks even more. That's why we don't watch many movies these days. We've thought about Netflix, but I'm not big on monthly clubs deducting money each month whether you use it or not.

I've got a real nice 36 inch tube that's about 8 years old. It was top of the line when I bought it, and still pretty good today. But, no match to the HD stuff. When I watch a DVD movie using my 5 year old DVD player on my 8 year old tube TV, it's got a great picture. I'm looking to upgrade to an HD TV within the next year, but I'd like to see more HD content available, and I'm still undetermined on what the best technology is. And besides, I'm fairly satisfied with what I have now for the most part. So, I just wait and watch the technology sort itself out and fall in price! So, I'm not sure if Blu-ray is something I would need if I already had a DVD player.

Let's hope for the sake of SONY that blue-ray isn't a fad...
The PS3 is run on Blue-Ray....

......if anybody has a file on Internet Movie Database, you should check out all the Blue Ray banter on the "Video" board.......in fact, I just finished my run on there a couple days before I started here.

If any of the users ask, tell them there "FoxRacerXP" sent ya. ;o) (I was, and still am, a huge fan of Laserdisc.....I know I know, try not to laugh too hard..........thing about LD is 1) it is (was) an Industry Standard format, (2) it doesn't use region coding or copy protection (a few might have used Macrovision or some other thing that has been easily foiled over the years) and (3) movies on LD are superfrickincheap. I think that's enough of a reason right there........

Although I plan to buy a DVB/HDTV Convertor box for my new (bought last June!) NTSC television set, I have really no desire to actually have an HDTV set, nor any of the other accompanying equipment. And, although some of you may have heard this one before, I do firmly believe Blue Ray is doomed to fall the way of Betamax, at least in the home consumer's eyes.

(It may very well find a place in a specialised application, like television production, where Beta formats seem to have made their "home" since the 80s, or whenever it went largely belly-up.)

But Trixter, I agree with one point there: Sony better not screw up Blue Ray the way they seem to have done Beta.......could be a truly fatal blow for them if they do (it's a gamble, like the IBAC Radio system tends to be....I try not to use the term "HD" radio because it's misleading.)

It all begs the query of *why* do I want another new-fangled and expensive device when my current, generic JVC DVD player and my 15-some DVDs work just fine? (In fact, most of the time that DVD player actually just plays background music CDs!) I don't get it..........

Here are the variables:

Color recording method:
composite used in 1", 3/4"Umatic, 1/2", VHS, D-2, D-3
S video (Y/C) used in Hi8, S-VHS
component (Y'C_BC_R used in Betacam SP, Digital Betacam, DVD, DV, D-1, D-5
RGB used in computer video and graphics files (rare for tape formats)


Video Sampling Rate:
14.3 MHz (early DVR's used 4 x chroma subcarrier of 3.58 MHz ... this is the origin of the 4 in 4:2:2
13.5 MHz SDV chosen to work with both NTSC and PAL digital video
6.75 MHz This is the sampling rate for the color difference channels in 4:2:2 (half of 13.5 MHz)

Color Sampling Ratio: e.g.
4:4:4 for HDCAM SR
4:2:2 for Digital Betacam, D-1,D-5,DVCPRO HD, DVCPRO 50
3:1:1 HDCAM
4:1:1 NTSC DV, DVCAM, and DVCPRO; PAL DVCPRO
4:2:0 PAL DV, DVCAM, HDV

For example, 4:2:2 sampling means that for every four pixels of luma info stored, only two C_R samples and two C₈ samples are stored.

Information from Apple Final Cut Pro 5 User Manual Vol IV Media Management (Final Cut Studio comes with 17 lbs of books!!!!!!)

Also please go to page 7 of this document at Adobe:

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/pdfs/hdprimer_0306.pdf

>>>" don't get it.........."

I can tell.

Matter of fact, I rarely watch movies on my LD any more, heck, I maybe only make the cinema only once or twice in a year's time.

Unless they make a Blue Ray player with super-high-quality MPEG3 audio decompression that really sings, I just don't picture myself getting a player any time soon.

To each his own.................

By the way Deane, do you use the IMDB's forums?

>>>"By the way Deane, do you use the IMDB's forums?"

I often refer to IMDB for information on a film, but I've never visited the forums. I'll give them a shot.

I mostly visit:

AVS Sciences Forum
Home Theater Talk
Blu-Ray Forum
HD-DVD Forum (occassionaly, it's not very active
Home Theater Shack (mostly for their BFD section)

Nothing gets one interested in movies like a good front projection theater with good 5.1 sound. It's like entering a whole new world.

imdb forums are TERRIBLE for any decent discussion or information. They're one step up (or sideways) from Aint It Cool News talkbacks.

AVS forums are nice, I tend to hit the Home Theater Forum myself, nice layman explanations and knowledgeable people not prone to the fanboy fighting that can break out when grown nerds are slobbering over their toys

Deane, what proj you got?

>>>"Deane, what proj you got?"

Just recently upgraded from my 5 year old projector to the Panasonic AE900U. Awesome.

Some photos of my theater setup, taken before changing projectors.

http://www.kathiejohnson.com/HomeTheater.html

DVD collection is up to about 1750 titles. We watch a movie almost every night. I've stopped buying temporarily and on hold for high-def when the format war settles down a bit.

whooooooooooooooo. Look at YOU. Damn.

Definitely envious. Mine looks like yours, except about 500 percent more low budget ;) For example--where you have motorized mattes (SO JEALOUS) I simply have removable mattes I have to put on by hand if I wanna watch a 2.35 movie. And where you have curtains retracting into pillars--I have homemade curtains from 3 dollar fabric at Wal-Mart stapled to the wall

Still--like you said, the experience (even my low budge) is ridiculously immersive. And it beats theatrical exhibition most of the time.

The AE9000 is a beast, man. That's quality stuff. I have an InFocus IN72. Nowhere near that Panny's league, but bang for the buck is pretty damned good.

My results are better than the cost. I made the masking system from old DrapeBoss programmable motors (now out of business). We own the company that makes the Screen Curtains and have done them for numerous theaters around the country from New York to San Fransico and Wisconsin to Houston.

Bought the projector at the end of the model year on closeout for $1300.

End result is that I don't spend much but work hard to achieve more expensive type results. Mike Kolb can tell you about my attitude towards professionalism on a poor mans budget.

I don't think people realize what a great theater experience they can have in their home for relatively little money.

"a great theater experience"

So, are you satisfied with the number of watchable releases each week to justify the expense of your system, or it is the experience of being surrounded by sound and visual effects (with the actual contents secondary) the key thing here?

Personally, I find movies unwatchable (boring) and have a hard time justifying getting anything bigger than a '32 screen for the few releases that are compelling to watch.

No judgment here, just curious about what makes people kick.

I went through a phase in the early 90s, during a brief period when Laserdisc enjoyed supremacy as the best consumer video format, where I collected laserdisc movies and setup a basic surround-sound system, etc. I used to enjoy seeking out the best new releases that had had the best transfers and audio reproductions done (e.g. "Apocolypse Now"). But honest, I got bored with it at some point, right around the time DVD came out. (I still have a bunch of laserdiscs in a closet - probably 150 of them! You can't get some of the editions I have on DVD, either, e.g. "Goldfinger" with audio commentary by the director and a few other creative people.)

No matter how wonderful your home theater is, it can't really compare to an authentic movie theater. There's just something cool about those movie seats, the smell of popcorn, and having dozens or even hundreds of other people in the same room with you while you watch a great movie. I'm not talking about the multiplex at the Mall, I'm talking about some of the old theaters that are still around. I used to want to own a little movie theater, but it's not a money-making proposition most likely, just a hobby for a retired rich person with too much time on his hands (not me, unfortunately).

But home theater is a fun hobby, I guess. I used to be up on the lingo and the latest/greatest available consumer technology - now it's kind of passed me by and I can only guess how far the technology has come since my little Dolby Pro-Logic analog setup. :-)

Andrew

Well, I'm not gonna speak for Deane, but I'm a full-bore movie nut. I'm not a bottom feeding troglodyte spending money on shit like "Date Movie" or anything like that, but if I'm gonna indulge in watching "The Godfather" I figure why not watch on a HUGE screen in a darkened room with wonderful, clear sound, like it was meant to be seen?

See, long ago, DVD stopped being a "new releases" type thing, at least to me. There are scads of films on DVD, old catalog films, that are getting treatment VHS just couldn't give them, and I find being able to see the details the cinematographer worked on, being immersed in the sound design, Noticing the details in the costume design, all those things ENHANCE the "content" or story/acting/music of the film. There's an art to filmmaking that I enjoy very much, and it's more than simply another vehicle for storytelling.

I don't think it's a case of the toys dwarfing what we're playing on them. At least for me it isn't. I'm not tinkering with a Projector just so I can slap "Larry the Cable Guy" up on there, I got the projector because I want to do JUSTICE to the movies I love. The toys came BECAUSE of the love of film, not the other way around.

I don't know why it's gotta be an "each week" thing, either. There's been months at a time that I don't buy a release because nothing comes out worth watching, but that doesn't mean I don't have a couple hundred really good movies that I can watch again and again. Stuff like "Raiders of the Lost Ark" or "The Maltese Falcon" don't have an expiration date. Even if I never see another movie on DVD come out, the collection of timeless stories and artistic craft contained on those DVD's I DO have would still make the a/v setup I have worth the money, because I'm getting more out of those films at home now than anyone ever was in the Laserdisc/VHS/Home 8mm days.

Movies aren't like TV shows, where new stuff has to slap me in the face week after week in order to justify my spending time on it. Movies are like books, like songs--they can be enjoyed repeatedly, and the home theater stuff simply brings out the details better than a smaller screen and TV speakers can.

Same way a fisher price boombox can play your CD's, but it's not doing justice to the noise coming out when you put your favorite album on.

But if you hate movies period-full-stop, then I can understand why this would be not so easy to understand. Me, I can't imagine NOT loving film, so trying to get my home viewing experience to best match the theatrical experience is a no-brainer.

(sorry to go off subject but)The prices for flat screens are dropping, and will continue to drop.
I remember 4 years ago, when the flat panel tv's came out the CHEAPEST you could find was 5 grand. Now you can get a fairly decent size flat screen for $1500. Im more curious about LCD Versus Plasma screens. Which ones are better? Is it true that plasmas don't last as long as LCd's because I heard that Plasmas last half as long as LCD's. The plasma technology burns out and your screen starts to fade.

Im with Fatboy, I LOVE movies, and watching them on a jumbo screen withh surround sound totally enhances the viewing pleasure.

fatboy, don't get me wrong, I loves movies, but very few are worth seeing again if watchable in the first place. In fact, I can think of only two movie that I've watched more than once this year -- United 93 and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang -- neither seem in need of a jumbo screen to enjoy.

I suppose others seem to get more out of the average movie than I do thereby they're finding the expense worth it.

(I'll just spend my surplus dollars on making movies instead!)

Plasma vs. LCD

http://www.cnet.com.au/tvs/0,239035250,240036500,00.htm

Advantages/disadvantages with either choice.

Contrast, resolution, lifespan, max. angle viewing are the most
discussed issues in almost all the articles and reviews.

skep says
n fact, I can think of only two movie that I've watched more than once this year -- United 93 and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang -- neither seem in need of a jumbo screen to enjoy."

Why on earth would you want to see United 93 twice??

There are plenty of titles, that I can watch hundreds of times and never get sick of.
Hey skep, do me a favor and tell me how Flight 93 ends. JK.

This is a film that is FANTASTIC moviemaking . . . think about it -- we already knew the outcome in advance, yet we were sitting at the edge of our seats never once looking at our watches.

They used many non-actors, many recreating their original roles of the day of the event. The style of editing and directing made a lower budget film look top notch. There was so much going on that one couldn't take it in all at once. Each time I watch it I admire all the smart work by the filmmakers.

SPOILER ALERT! The passengers toss the hijackers overboard and they get sucked in the jet engine causing the aircraft to disappear into the Burmuda Triangle.

Good questions and comments Skep.

>>>>>"So, are you satisfied with the number of watchable releases each week to justify the expense of your system, or it is the experience of being surrounded by sound and visual effects (with the actual contents secondary) the key thing here?"

There are not enough good new movies coming out, but with a library of 1750, we watch a repeat about 75% of the time. An advantage to getting old is that you forget what movies were about and a re-watch can be like a new movie. Some movies are better the second time around, some not.

>>>>>"Personally, I find movies unwatchable (boring) and have a hard time justifying getting anything bigger than a '32 screen for the few releases that are compelling to watch."

This changes a lot with a big screen, total darkness and great sound. Even mediocre movies can be enjoyed in the right environment. With the great quantity of "on location" shooting, it can be an escape into another world. And, the visual and audio sensation associated with movies such as Master and Commander, King Kong, and Pirates of the Caribbean is not describable.

Our situation is a bit different than some peoples. We have a handicapped son who needs at least some attention from time to time. With a closed circuit video monitoring system, we can enjoy a movie, and still monitor him for any needs he might have.

There is nothing on TV to watch. Nothing. We'd go crazy each evening without the home theater to spend our time in. My wife owns her own company and is tired come evening. She truly enjoys closing the world out and getting lost in a movie, even a mediocre one.

We find it necessary to completely close the world out. Blackout blinds close the outside off. All lighting is off, the room is totally dark. Phones are off and don't ring. We enter another world for 2 hours in the evening.

A movie on the big screen in isolation is very different than on a smaller CRT. I know. We started with a 30" CRT, along with the blackout blinds and the present sound system. Adding the projector was like watching an entirely new movie.

Because of the business, and the needs of our son, we don't take vacations, weekend getaways and the like. We end up not spending any more money on home theater than other people do on various recreational activities. Just a concentrated focus on one thing that happens to fit our life style.

So, the end result is that despite a shortage of worthwhile movies these days, we're still able to get full enjoyment from our theater.

Hmm . . . the escapism factor . . . something to think about, and of course the opportunity to do it in your own home, every night! Cool.

Conclusion:

Video technology is great.

Television sucks.

Motion pictures are teetering on the edge of worth.

Fatboyroberts~

"imdb forums are TERRIBLE for any decent discussion or information. They're one step up (or sideways) from Aint It Cool News talkbacks."

That is true...in fact I will say they used to be a bit better a few years ago. Although the registry process is fast, and completely free if you don't go IMDB-Pro, you can't just pop in any time and view the posts if you aren't a registered user any more (like you can do here.) They changed it from a "somewhat private" forum system to a "completely exclusive and closed off" system.

Also, especially on the Video board, many have evolved into little more than "wanna rate my VHS/DVD/Edison Cylinder etc. collecition?" posts, if they aren't merely bashing actors, films, formats etc.

Check it out if you want to waste time but if you want some tech talk, don't even bother, unless it becomes the year 2004 again.........

(Matter of fact I deleted my file on IMDB a week ago because of the somewhat lack of tech talk!!)

DJ..
WOW!

Deane, I suggest that you contact the White House and tell them that you're the man to negotiate a peach deal with Iran and North Korea. Because any man that has the negotiation skills to convince his wife of allowing such a get up would have no problem negotiating with our enemy. My wife thinks our 36 is too big. That's what I'm working with!

My wife KILLED me when I purchased a 52" Plasma from Standard in July...
I say we send DJ to negotiate also!!!!!

Oh yeah Deane, are you an audiophile too?

Personally (and this is my honest opinion) there's no audiophilia experience like hearing a self-made and totally improv'd 48000Hz/360KBPS Constant Bitrate MPEG remaster of Philip Glass' "Einstein On The Beach" in a dark room, running on at least a Prologic......now while this may not exactly be "audiophilia" for a 22-year old with little experience (as I am) this sure might come pretty durn close!!

[Tangent]
SideTopicMode=1

If you like hearing the chorus chanting numbers or the word "Neighbour" constantly for about 20 minutes at a time, the effect can be truly magical indeed. (And should the question happen to come up again, somehow, let me answer it right now: I DO NOT USE DRUGS.)

And if anyone thinks the MP3 audio format can't be a truly audiophile format, guess again. Enough bandwidth, coupled with the highest possible bitrate (I use 360 CBR for everything myself, Variables and anything lower than that, to me anyways, are a big-ol' no-no!!) careful equalisation and remastering and a high-quality playback device definately can have the potential to fake-out even the supposedly most discerning of audiophiles. You think you can't tell the difference between a LAME'd MP3 at 44100/192CBR and an audio CD? A LAME'd MP3 at 48000 (or higher)/360CBR TOTALLY trumps that. (Even 44100/360CBR can easily rival anything at 192, using the same sample rate.)

[Tangent]
SideTopicMode=0

Okay, now back to the video............

I think any mp3 is lame compaired to a red book standard music CD.

Here's a question for DJ: Are the blu-ray discs capable of recording raw 4:4:4 DV video? (I'm not talking about HD video, just standard raw uncompressed DV video output from camera.)

Sure--it's just a storage format. As long as you can get a laser to burn it, you can put whatever data you want on it.

How MUCH raw 4:4:4 DV video you can put on it--that's another question entirely. And whether you can play back that raw video without further encoding on a consumer TV with Consumer equipment? Also another question.

But with a single layer Blu-Ray disc holding 25 gigs, I'm sure you could capture the 4:4:4 data to it perfectly fine.

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#hddvd

Here are some specs on the blue ray

"But with a single layer Blu-Ray disc holding 25 gigs, I'm sure you could capture the 4:4:4 data to it perfectly fine"

Uncompressed 4:4:4 ? I don't think so. Definitely not HD.
In fact only HDCAM SR uses 4:4:4 because so much data is required. NTSC DV uses 4:1:1 and HDV uses 4:2:0
Digital Betacam uses 4:2:2 Scroll up in the thread to my earlier post.

Uncompressed standard definition video at 24 MB/sec works
out to about 17 min. on a 25GB disc. Don't confuse standard def uncompressed digital video with DV.

DV is actually compressed (often mistaken for just an acronym for digital video, DV is in itself a specification and does use compression. "The DV specification (originally known as the Blue Book, current official name IEC 61834) defines both the codec and the tape format. Features include intraframe compression for uncomplicated editing, a standard interface for transfer to non-linear editing systems (FireWire also known as IEEE 1394), and good video quality, especially compared to earlier consumer analog formats such as 8 mm, Hi-8 and VHS-C."

DV uses DCT intraframe compression at a fixed bitrate of 25 megabits per second (25.146 Mbit/s), which, when added to the sound data (1.536 Mbit/s), the subcode data, error detection, and error correction (approx 8.7 Mbit/s) amounts in all to roughly 36 megabits per second (approx 35.382 Mbit/s) or one Gigabyte every four minutes."
Wikipedia

High def is completely out of the question.

Uncompressed 8 bit 1080i 29.97 high def video has a typical data rate of 121.5 MB/sec
Uncompressed 10 bit 1080i 29.97 high def video has a typical data rate of 182.3 MB/sec

so multiply times 60and divide by 1024

60 x 121.5 / 1024 = 7GB/min or about three minutes on a 25GB disc
60 x 182.3 / 1024 = 11GB/min or about two minutes on a 25GB disc


"High definition requires extremely high data rates (around 1.4 Gbps). There are no camcorder formats currently available for recording uncompressed HD video. High capacity, general purpose digital tape formats like D-6 can be used in combination with camera heads and digital telecine machines capable of outputting uncompressed RGB and component HD video data. High speed disk arrays can also be used to record uncompressed HD video." Final Cut Pro 5, Volume IV: Media Management and Output, pp. 368-369 Appendix A

>>>"Oh yeah Deane, are you an audiophile too? "

I used to be, but no longer.

About the wife approval factor mentioned several times above!

First of all, we tend to work together on things, not against each other as is far too common. Neither of us feels we have to "have our way". As a result, new ideas get tossed out on the table and looked at with an open mind. Makes things work fantastic.

I have been interested in home theater for more than 50 years. My first theater, complete with projection booth, screen and curtains was while in about the 9th grade. 16mm, no sound. That was in 1950.

Second theater was in about 1958, now with Cinemascope and sound, plus remote control motorized curtains, a system I built myself.

Fast forward to 2000. Now digital video and the DVD have arrived. Bought an Atlantic Technology reps 370THX demo set. Sounded awesome, and used them with a 30" CRT (cheapy). My wife began to like movies with great sound, even on the small screen.

I found a Telex 1400 ANSI projector on closeout for $3900 (MSRP $10,000). What a steal. Most home theaters were getting $20,000 CRT projectors, but only the rich folks. I shot the picture on a white wall about 7' wide and the rest was history.

We quickly decided home theater was with us to stay and we agreed that home theater would come first and the living room second. It was the only way to go. As a result, we slowly changed to room to harmonize with the theater.

Visitors are knocked out by it. My 95 year old Mother thinks it's the coolest thing she's ever seen. Loves to sit and look at the red draperies.

So, there was no negotiating. Only occasional demonstration as to what could be. And, above all, a major desire on the part of my wife to move into uncharted territory with the living room decoration. We both detest doing things because "that's what other people do".

So, that's the long explanation as to how it came to be, one piece at a time.

http://www.kathiejohnson.com/HomeTheater.html

If Pottery Barn could come up with something like that, then my wife might be more willing to negotiate. We tend to battle between form (the wife) and function (me).

Could you invite us all over for a "demonstration"?

I promise, nary a political word will cross my lips!

Do you have a popcorn machine?

('ll vacuum afterwards)

>>>"If Pottery Barn could come up with something like that, then my wife might be more willing to negotiate. We tend to battle between form (the wife) and function (me)."

It happens often. Work towards making function have form. How would Walt Disney do it?

>>>"Do you have a popcorn machine?"

We used to do air popped corn, sprayed with buttered Pam and salted, which was outstanding and without fat and cholesterol, but that's given way to snacks like sliced apples, oranges, plums and red grapes, plus later a toasted whole wheat bagel. Yes, health awarenesss has come to our home theater.

Hey Deane, I am probably about to make myself sound incredibly dated now, but I used to have to repair and set up the old 16mm's as an A/V tech in Jr. High (Cascade Jr. High/Vancouver......now just a hole in the ground, literally) and in High School (Evergreen Class of 2002 GO PLAINSMEN....) and it was *not* fun at all........if those old dinosaur Eiki's (EHS used to have a couple Minoltas in their fleet, those were *much* nicer) weren't eating the films up, they were incredibly hard to thread. They weren't autos, you had to open the side panel and insert the film into the mechanism by hand.

If the film wasn't getting eaten up (ain't fun trying to splice those things back together either!) then there was this one projector with the framer that never seemed to want to keep the frame centred on the screen.......sure used to piss off one of the Biology teachers when halfway through a faded, worn-out 1970s-era film on mitosis, there would suddenly be this black line through the picture. If that ain't driving the point home of dividing cells then I don't know what is!!

And this was all circa 2000, by the way. Recently I visited E-green and saw a couple DVDs sitting on the table, so apparently they must have a DVD player somewhere in the building.

Should also be interesting to note that amidst all the horrors of being a projectionist I never did see a celluloid fire, so I must have been doing something right.....

(all the projectors in the fleet had sound by the way. Some had an internal speaker but a couple had external speakers that plugged into the side.)

Andy: Sorry man, I was being kind of smartassed: Note that I prefaced my "Yes" with this;

"How MUCH raw 4:4:4 DV video you can put on it--that's another question entirely."

I was figuring you'd essentially get a film-mag's worth of video on a single layer Blu-Ray disc. I was off on that, but the question was "Can I record to it" and yeah, you can. It's just a data storage format. You can record anything to it. I wouldn't RECOMMEND it ;)

I might not go for Blue Ray video right away (if ever) but I think it would be interesting to see how (if) it, or another well-supported high-density DVD format (if any) matures enough to find its way into computers, and see an affordable recorder drive be introduced.

'Twould make the chore of backing my two hard drives up every month (should be doing it more often) MUCH easier..........

I'll bet DIVX ends up doing this. It scales to HD now, and has very high quality / compression ratios.

Don't want to put a jinx on this thread but you guys notice the quality of it without any posts from our two favorite TROLLS!!!! It is amazing the quality of conversation that can be achieved without those two!!

I vote for a Battlestar Galactica (New Series) Marathon at DJ's theatre!!! I'll bring the DVD's...season's 1, 2.0, and 2.5!!!! I'll even bring some grapes!!! There a little smashed and all that is left is the fermented juice though....can do either Red or White...maybe even a Blush!!!LOL

Oh yah...to start it I also have the 2 hour season premier!!!

Sounds good to me.

I'd like to see all of "The Godfather" movies and maybe "Raging Bull".

(I have never seen any of the above, or Titanic)

Oh, and how about "The 5000 Fingers of Dr. T", too!

Sadly, "The Long, Long Trailer" with Lucy and Desi is probably not worthy of DJ's theatre.

I bet the Indiana Jones Trilogy would be great on a theatre like that also.....or my two favorite Star Trek movies...."STAR TREK II THE WRATH OF KAHN" (old) "STAR TREK NEMESIS" (next gen)....those would be excellent!!!

But one of my two favorite all time movies, (mostly due to the awesome soundtracks) would be killer!!!

Highlander with music by QUEEN
or
Armegedon with music by AEROSMITH

BTW....have them to.....can never get enough of the last two....can watch them over and over!!!!

LOL about the "long long trailer" All I remember from the movie is Desi throwing all of Lucy's rocks (boulders, actually) out of the trailer.

2001, A Space Odyssey would be an ideal Top Bill for DJ's Theatre.

>>>"Sadly, "The Long, Long Trailer" with Lucy and Desi is probably not worthy of DJ's theatre."

Surprising enough, this isn't out on DVD.


>>>"(I have never seen any of the above, or Titanic) "

Watched Titanic the other night for the first time on the big screen. We had previously only watched it on a 30" CRT. An entirely different feel. Much more a feeling of being there. Movies like Titanic need the screen size to give you the feel of how frightening and terrible the tragedy must have been for those involved.

There is something about the big screen and total darkness that pulls you into the picture like no small screen can possible do.

Man, anybody have an inside deal on the airlines!

This would be fun, indeed!