"BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) — Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki on Tuesday ordered the lifting of joint U.S.-Iraqi military checkpoints around the Shiite militant stronghold of Sadr City and other parts of Baghdad — another apparent move to assert his authority with the Americans and appeal to his Shiite support base.

U.S. forces disappeared from the checkpoints within hours of the order, setting off celebrations among civilians and armed men on the edge of the sprawling slum controlled by the Mahdi Army militia run by radical anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr."


We need to get out NOW and tell Iraq's leaders to go to Hell before we waste any more of our troops to a lost cause.

Why do you want out? Do you want Iran to come in and take over the area? Don't you know if we do that our nation could be attacked again?

If we are really at war, why don't we act like it. We can't let them tell us how to fight.
Wayne, why do you want to keep throwing bodies at a country that won't let us fight the way we need too.

As the attackers, we need to set the rules, not the people we are fighting.

You claim to value lives so much before we are born, but do not give a damn about us later. We are wasting lives in two countries that will never support us.

If you care so damn much, enlist, just like I did when I was fooled to fight in Vietnam.

It is cowards like you who are really responsible for more than 103 being killed in Iraq this month.

I have to agree with the liberals on this one. We should never have troops in a combat zone where we don't make our own decisions.

If the Iraqi governement wants to now run things, let them step up to the plate with their own security forces.

By Deane_johnson on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 11:01 am:

"We should never have troops in a combat zone where we don't make our own decisions."

Damn straight......If we don't call the shots we don't go in! That would be like pissing on a forest fire instead of using a firehose......you are going to get burned!

"Life is Tough, But it's Tougher if you're stupid"
Sergeant John M. Stryker, USMC

If I've told Wayner once, I've told him a thousand times:

You can't fix stupid.

Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Condi, Wolfie all share one thing -- they have never fought in a war. Cheney refused to fight five times!!!

And let's not forget George Bush's architect of the entire war -- Douglas Feith -- Undersecretary of Defense for Policy and the man Gen. Tommy Franks called "the stupidest m-f who ever walked the Earth."

But Franks never met Wayner!

Here is the message we need to send to them....

http://cmsu2.cmsu.edu/public/classes/Wassell/Presentations/Eagle%201a.pps

http://cmsu2.cmsu.edu/public/classes/Wassell/Presentations/B-2%20Nuclear%20Run.b mp

It sounds like you people want America to have another 9-11 don't you? Do you want Iran to take over the area? I didn't get an answer. I guess thats the truth.

Don't be a jerk, Wayne. I know you can't help yourself. No, what we want is to get rid of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield and all the other turds in the current administration.

>>>"You can't fix stupid."

You said it Eastsideguy. I assume you're in a position to know.

Wayne: The guys who caused 9-11 came from Saudia Arabia. why don't we attack them?

Easy answer, too much money to the Bush family and Cheney.

The goal in Iraq was to get rid of Sadam. Mission accomplished. Now is the time to leave and I don't give a damn if Iran moves in.

We should all give a damn if Iran moves in. This is country that has funded and directed terrorist attacks against the United States before, as recently as 1996, and whose leader is actively pushing to develop nuclear weapons. They already have a large reserve of oil, but Iraq's is even bigger. Ceding control of all that oil to an unstable regime would be extremely dangerous to the world's economies.

(So there's yet another reason to wean America off of our foreign oil addiction as soon as we can!!!)

While pulling all our troops out of Iraq tomorrow would be ill advised (and almost no one is asking for that), we also need not just a new approach but an honesty of understanding of our current situation in Iraq. As long as the current administration sticks to its delusions about Iraq simply being about the "War on Terror," and staying the course (yes, despite the change of words, that's all the Bush administration is doing), we're never going to make any progress there.

Andrew

People, we have already won. Let's go.

the iraqi goverment has given the bush adminstration an excuse to pull out. The bush admin should make a beeline for the border.

as for iran, bush can pull a clinton on iran saying they will order airstrikes on ALL foreign armies setting foot on iraqi soil. if they don't know how to do this, they can call in former clinton secy of defense william cohen (a REPUBLICAN by the way) for advice or replace rummy.

http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/secdef_histories/bios/cohen.htm

Changing strategy is probably a good idea. That often happens in times of war. If you remember we did that in world war 2.

I would say you gave a pretty good argument for drilling in our own country Andrew! We would pay a heavy price if we kept adding alternatives to our oil. It would be better to make one pump available for fuel that is not oil. We definately need to find oil elsewhere besides the Middle East. If Iran does take over the area what will that do for the price of the gas we pay whhen we drive?

We need to think of the consequences there are if we pull out of Iraq now like the first post of this thread insists.

wayne, pay attention to the news -- we are getting NO OIL from iraq. The bush admin cannot protect the oil infrastructure repairs from being damaged again and again. it may be news to you, but the bush admin can't even get OIL out of this oil-rich country.

I thought the liberals were screaming that we just wanted to seize their oil. I get confused.

"Why do you want out? Do you want Iran to come in and take over the area? Don't you know if we do that our nation could be attacked again?"

Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with our country being attacked in the first place. What's so hard to comprehend about this? Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein had a strong dislike and mistrust of each other. What is so hard about this I ask you?

The fact of the matter is this: We are in a country where we show no respect for the people, the government, the religion, or the history. We are there for reasons that the administration totally lied about, faulty intelligence, and now ... more or less, because we can. Meanwhile, thousands of Americans and over 600,000 Iraqi civilians have died. All so we can be Big Brother and help a nation of people THAT DOES NOT WANT OUR HELP.

George W. Bush and his sheep like Wayne make me ashamed to be a registered Republican.

this "lib" never claimed that. I think bush SOLELY went to iraq to get saddam. the potential for cheap oil was a bonus.

Skeptical has the answer.

Promise airstrikes if Iran tries to invade. It worked in Serbia.

At least Clinton knew how to win a war with fewer U.S. deaths.

>>>" think bush SOLELY went to iraq to get saddam."

We agree.

Yeah, talk about a short-sighted President.

Instead of thinking outside the box like other countries (Brazil comes to mind, the only country in the world where it is required to sell cars that take both gasoline and ethanol ... AND require both fuels to be sold. Nooo, Dubya chooses to invade other countries.

Dude is about as sharp as a bowling ball.

Lets not confuse Smart Dude (Jeff Bridges) with Dumb Dude (George Bush). The former is smarter than a bowling ball, the later isn't.

"Promise airstrikes if Iran tries to invade. It worked in Serbia.

At least Clinton knew how to win a war with fewer U.S. deaths."

We at least were part of a UN coalition in Serbia, and had the world's backing. We weren't virtually on our own then like we are now.

Clinton acted as part of the UN coalition. His track record on foreign affairs like that alone isn't nearly as impeccable (example: Somalia)

The fix for the IRAN problem......

http://cmsu2.cmsu.edu/public/classes/Wassell/Presentations/B-2%20Nuclear%20Run.b mp

Let er RIP!

Try this one

http://cmsu2.cmsu.edu/public/classes/Wassell/Presentations/B-2%20Nuclear%20Run.b mp

By Skeptical on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 12:48 pm:
wayne, pay attention to the news -- we are getting NO OIL from iraq. The bush admin cannot protect the oil infrastructure repairs from being damaged again and again. it may be news to you, but the bush admin can't even get OIL out of this oil-rich country.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pay attention to the news. We didn't go into Iraq because of their oil! Thats a worn out liberal mantra.

By Brianl on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 1:11 pm:
"Promise airstrikes if Iran tries to invade. It worked in Serbia.

At least Clinton knew how to win a war with fewer U.S. deaths."

We at least were part of a UN coalition in Serbia, and had the world's backing. We weren't virtually on our own then like we are now.

Clinton acted as part of the UN coalition. His track record on foreign affairs like that alone isn't nearly as impeccable (example: Somalia)


lets see how many people were killed when Clinton went into Kosovo? Why did he turn a deaf ear when we had all those people killed in Rwanda? I know someone who lived there when the civil war happened and he lost all of his family!
And the UN is one outfit I don't trust. Not with Libya and Iran as part of the human rights committee!Why didn't the UN help us in our effort in Iraq? Its probably because the UN wants the USA to lose the war on terror like the liberals do.

By Skeptical on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 12:58 pm:
this "lib" never claimed that. I think bush SOLELY went to iraq to get saddam. the potential for cheap oil was a bonus.

so far you are the only liberal here who thinks the way you do!

"so far you are the only liberal here who thinks the way you do!"

Well, seeing as it has been documented and reported by multiple sources that Bush made a point after first taking office that he was going to "get that bastard" in Iraq.

If Skeptical is the only liberal who seems to think that Bush went to Iraq solely for Saddam's head, then he is joined by at least one conservative here.

Add me to the list who thinks invading Iraq was all about pre-meditated regime change in Iraq, nothing more.

Bush was ashamed his Dad was not Reagan, so he had to beat up that bad man that beat his Dad. Bush Jr. was determined to go after Saddam, no matter what the reason or cost.

Simply put, he has killed more than 3,000 troops to avenge his father.

The funny thing is, his father was smart enough not to invade Iraq. He knew it was a lose-lose situation. Unfortunately, the nut fell a little too far from the tree to take heed of his dad's warning.

Wayne, ZERO american deaths in Kosovo. You know NOTHING. You're MAKING THINGS UP. You are embarassing your republican friends.




Folks, I agree, "H W" Bush is far wiser than many of us give him credit -- history will note it. Being the "lib" that I am, I'd say Clinton was pretty smart to "stay the "H W" course as well.

Unfortunately now we've a doofus in the white house and one in the forum.

I've always said that the war in Iraq was planned from day one of the Bush Administration, and that the sole reason was to seek revenge.

I've just started reading Bob Woodward's "State of Denial." In the first chapter is a quote from George H. W. Bush in the late 90s defending his decision not to go into Baghdad in 1991. The things he warned about are pretty much exactly what has happened.

I'm now convinced that history will remember George W. Bush's greatest achievement as making his old man look like a fucking genius.

Andrew

George H.W. Bush and the UN coalition did exactly what they were SUPPOSED to do in Desert Storm - drive Iraq back out of Kuwait and give the Kuwaitis their nation back.

Nothing more.

H.W. was indeed very solid in the Oval Office, he wasn't flashy and all iron-fisted like his predecessor and he wasn't as popular or charismatic as his successor, but you can't argue with the body of work IMO. One thing is for sure, he was a lot more moderate than his son.

By Bookemdono on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 1:53 pm:
The funny thing is, his father was smart enough not to invade Iraq. He knew it was a lose-lose situation. Unfortunately, the nut fell a little too far from the tree to take heed of his dad's warning.


obviously you forgot all about Kuait!
Gee what a short memory you have! If Saddam is such a wonderful leader you probably think that it was okay for Saddam to do that! I guess you blame Bush41 for invading Iraq

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Brianl on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 3:22 pm:
George H.W. Bush and the UN coalition did exactly what they were SUPPOSED to do in Desert Storm - drive Iraq back out of Kuwait and give the Kuwaitis their nation back.

Nothing more.

H.W. was indeed very solid in the Oval Office, he wasn't flashy and all iron-fisted like his predecessor and he wasn't as popular or charismatic as his successor, but you can't argue with the body of work IMO. One thing is for sure, he was a lot more moderate than his son.


Its apparently that you have forgotten that the reason why we are in Iraq at all is because of Bush 41. Also if you want to blame anybody for Iraq its Clinton. Because he was the one who came up with resolution 1441 which I guess you forgot about.

No, I haven't forgot about Kuwait and I don't blame Bush the elder for "invading Iraq". He defended Kuwait, got out, and imposed sanctions on Saddam Hussein that worked throughout the 90's. He wasn't a threat to anyone after the that.

As has been said repeatedly here, Bush the Elder knew a full-on invasion of Iraq would be a mistake, but W. didn't pay attention and now the U.S., Iraq, and the world is left with a catastrophic situation that is entirely the choice of George W. Bush and his administration.

"Its apparently that you have forgotten that the reason why we are in Iraq at all is because of Bush 41. Also if you want to blame anybody for Iraq its Clinton. Because he was the one who came up with resolution 1441 which I guess you forgot about."

You're right. The reason WHY we are in Iraq is because of H.W. Bush.

Saddam Hussein put a price on H.W.'s head after Desert Storm. Rather than let bygones be bygones and leave well enough alone, H.W.'s son HAD to defend the name of his father, and "get that bastard." So you're right, it is because of H.W. that we are in Iraq right now.

Also, where are these countless thousands of WMD's stashed away that all that wonderful intelligence told us there were? Where did all that go? How about the correlation between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda that Dubya force-fed us as factual, when it is now shown that it was a crock of poo? All of this is Clinton's fault? Clinton told us to invade and kill over 600,000 INNOCENT IRAQIS? To help a nation that DOESN'T WANT OUR HELP?!?

Nice try. Go color in your Scratch and Sniff Bible.

Clinton was smart enought to contain him and bomb him when necessary. Saddam was more impotent than Rush Limbaugh as a result.

Actually, when Clinton pulled the weapons inspectors out of Iraq in late 1998 (contrary to popular myth, Saddam did not KICK them out), he bombed the hell out of Iraq and, as US intelligence figured out only after the 2003 invasion, those 1998 Desert Fox attacks were devastating, destroying any remaining Iraqi WMD capability, severely weakening the country, and nearly topping Saddam at that time.

Andrew

Gosh, imagine the deep sh*t Clinton would be in if he accidently toppled saddam . . . there would be no end to the GOP backlash . . .

thankfully GOD chosed to inflict THAT mess on someone who claims God speaks through him. If there is a bright side to this iraq mess, this is it!

Its funny how the troll makes Clinton and HW Bush look better and better.

Isn't it more funny how we might not have had a 9-11 if Clinton only had taken Bin Laden when he was supposed to.

Also, where are these countless thousands of WMD's stashed away that all that wonderful intelligence told us there were

they are in Syria! Saddam,your obvious hero, was supposed to declare his weapons, Brian!
Was Saddam right in invading Kuait? Could the Iraq war have anything to do with that?

Bin Who?

the looney bin we should be ignoring in this forum!

HeeHeeHeeHaHaHa!

Something radio related:

Z100 called some journalists in Kosovo. Not sure what made them do it, but I was extremely happy to be listening that day. It was wonderful radio.

They introduced themselves and the women in Kosovo didn't know what to say at first. A pop music station calling us for news? WTF??

The Z asked a coupla decent, but obvious and shallow questions, got an ear full. Here's where the talent came in:

They finally just said they were sorry, and let the woman know their listener size and asked if she wanted to say anything to the American people all wondering what people in Kosovo really thought.

They let the woman speak for about 3 minutes. She summed up the scenario and her thoughts.

For a moment, I was connected right to that news room. I could hear the hustle and bustle in the background, feel the womans anguish at the whole thing and share in the fact that we are all people at the end of the day.

When the call was over, the people at Z100 were speechless. "Wow" came out of Nelsons mouth. Coupla honest comments along the lines of "what did we just do!" Then back to commercial.

Time to lighten the mood in here....read and enjoy!!!!

>>While trying to escape through Pakistan,
>>Osama Bin Laden found a Bottle
>>on a beach and picked it up.
>>
>>Suddenly, a female genie rose from the bottle and with a smile said
>>"Master, may I grant you one wish?"
>>
>>"You ignorant, unworthy daughter-of-a-dog!
>>Don't you know who I am?
>>I don't need any common woman giving me anything"
>>barked Bin Laden.
>>
>>The shocked genie said
>>"Please, I must grant you a wish or I will be returned to that
>>bottle forever."
>>
>>Osama thought a moment, then grumbled about the impertinence of the
>>woman and said
>>"Very well, I want to awaken with three American women in my
>>bed in the morning. So just do it and be off with you!"
>>
>>The annoyed genie said,"So be it !"and disappeared.
>>
>>The next morning Bin Laden woke up in bed with
>>Lorena Bobbitt,Tonya Harding, andHillary Clinton.
>>
>>His penis was gone, his knees were broken,
>>and he had no health insurance.
>>
>>God is good!

And for your further enjoyment.....

An English farmer, Osama bin Laden, and an American engineer are walking
together one day. They come across an antique lamp and a genie pops out
of it. "I will give each of you one wish," says the genie.

The Englishman says, "I am a farmer, my dad was a farmer, and my son will
also farm. I want the land to be forever fertile." Pooooof!
With the blink of the Genie's eye, the land was forever made
fertile for farming.

An amazed Osama Bin Ladin declared, "I desire a wall around Afghanistan,
Iraq and Iran so that no infidels, most particularly Jews or Americans,
can enter our sacred Islamic states." Pooooof! Another blink and there
was a huge wall around those countries.

The American engineer says, "Before I make a wish, I am very curious.
Please tell me more about this wall."

The genie explains, "Well, it's about 5000 feet high, 500 feet thick,
and completely surrounds the three countries. Nothing can get in or out
-- it's virtually impenetrable."

Satisfied, the American replies, "Fill it with water."