Jocks were better when they played records. Call me old and in the way, but: when records were played,records that were actually good, commercials were on cart, and the listener line came directly into the control room the sheer amount of cockpit resource management required kept the jocks totally involved, up, and in the groove. It was exciting to do, that record was spinning, the next one had to be cued, was the speed set correctly? Were the carts loaded, did you have the right jingle? Were your pots up? There were no second takes. When you pulled off a good set, the endorphins raged. If you blew a set, then you paid the price of embarrasment.It kept one on her/his toes. And it was exciting for the listener as well. The listeners knew they were tapped into something that was happening in real time, they were watching the world with their ears. All that excitement was contagious, on every level. Damn, I miss it. That was good radio.

Here here. Backtiming that last song in the set so you left yourself enough time to backannounce the 3 tracks do the ID and hit the net news on the hour perfectly is a rush like no other.

Then again, when the song on the vinyl is listed at the incorrect time, you can look like a putz if you get caught offguard with nothing snappy to say or have to fade out early in a song with a cold and well known ending.

The original US pressing of Who's Next gave the incorrect time for Won't Get Fooled Again (9:40 instead of 8:30). First time I played that coming up to hour boy did I look bad.

Oh yeah those days.

Cue burn on the 45s. Carts imploding....especially the 3 stacked cart machines so when one cart wouldn't fire up the entire cart machine was dead. And who can forget cleaning those nasty cart heads, capstan and the like. Spilling cleaning alcohol all over yourself and smelling like a hospital the rest of the shift. Of course that's the time your best friend decides to show up with his hot date and do some schmoozin' to show off.

Sure running a tight board was fun and if you were in the zone there was no greater feeling. However I am glad to move beyond those days. If given the chance you can still run a tight "computer". It's not the toys that make the show...it's the talent.

I agree with Chris_taylor because if you take the computer manually you can run a tight show...but there is something about carts and records that a whole generation of folks will never know of, except in the history books...I think back to the days when you had Andy Barber, Ron Leonard, Terry Donahue, Tom Parker, Bob Anthony, Craig Walker, and the list goes on and on...the stations were KGW, KYTE, KISN, KFLY, KGAL, KRKT in the valley and I know I'm missing others...what great memories and a reason why so many wanted to not only be there but had their sites set on KFRC, KFI, KTNQ,WLS, KLIF, KFWB, KHJ, etc., and why so many stations emulated what was being done in the big markets even on the small market level...Those were the days!!!

>>It's not the toys that make the show...it's the talent.<<

But the toys have eliminated the need for the talent, Chris! You of all people should know that as a consummate voice-tracker. And no - that's not a slam against your talent. You are good at what you do. But what you do eliminates a live shift.

Before inexpensive PCs and cheap automation systems, there had to be a live body "making the magic". Sure, they had cue-burned 45s and quirky cart machines. But there was just something about having to get it right - the first time. There were no re-takes in live radio.

As Wannabee put it:

>>The listeners knew they were tapped into something that was happening in real time, they were watching the world with their ears. All that excitement was contagious, on every level.<<

And it will always be nothing but a memory.

Let's not for get back timing those records every hour up to the top, for your hourly network newscast.

"Let's not for get back timing those records every hour up to the top"

which explains the popularity of Jerry Reed's "Amos Moses." Supposedly clocking just under 2 minutes, it was perfect to fill a spot not quite long enough for a regular song.

Of course, When you heard that song, you knew the news would follow.

1lossir-

I disagree that the toys have eliminated the need for talent. If you could handle the 45s, cart machines and phones great, but the moment you cracked the mic and you sucked, no equipment in the world is going make you get better. The same goes with computers.

Lets use Craig Walker as an example. The equipment he used at KGW and then at KKCW changed over the years, yet he still was a great talent. He learned to use the new equipment and still kept his ability to relate the listener at a high level.

Tom Parker voiced tracked in Houston for 3 years and got great ratings. Why? Great talent!!

I came into the business at the tail end of 45s as everything was going to cart. But the focus wasn't on the means to broadcast but what the jock did when they cracked the mic. Good talent always rises above whatever the means may be.

Computers can only equal live mix in the manual mode. as was stated, but that's not the way computers found their way into the C.R. rather it is in support of automation.

You guys can argue all you want, it's apples and oranges.
Radio today is not people centric, period. That's not to dis
anyone getting a paycheck but it's just the facts of life.

Those of us that programmed from albums and had few requirements might remember these two minute fillers
many of which had fade ends:

Just Before The News by Loggins and Messina
I Ain't Got You by The Yardbirds
People Are Strange by The Doors
The Golden Road by The Grateful Dead
4 + 20 Crosby Stills and Nash
Happy Jack The Who
Good Day Sunshine The Beatles
Four Until Late Cream
Travelin' Band Creedence Clearwater Revival
Embryonic Journey The Jefferson Airplane*

There are many more.

*Try learning this one on guitar!!!!

Craig,

I totally agree that good talent rises above the means.

But it's the means that's eliminates the need for AS MANY great talents.

Using your example:

Craig Walker is a great talent. It doesn't matter what Craig Walker plays the music on - he's still a great talent.

But for every Craig Walker - there were hundreds, if not thousands of others who were certainly not as good - but still good enough to get on the air. And they plied their craft in small markets - live - and the better ones worked their way up the ranks to larger markets .

Sure, there will be people in the future that will be as talented as Craig Walker is. But there are fewer and fewer of them. And the main reason for that is the technology that obviates the need for live talent.

And that's the whole point.

-Rob Patterson

In the old days, many major market stations had a engineer running the board while the jock sat in a separate studio with only a microphone. Great jocks of the past could hit every post of the intro and then hit the vocal of the song. I always liked the tempo jingles (in the Boss radio days) that went from fast-to-slow & slow-to-fast. A straight jingle segue was just as important as a great intro talk up.

The one thing I didn't like about carts is when you could hear the cue tone for the warn lights bleeding over to the audio channel and going on the air.

I understand what Wannabe is saying. There's a relationship between the tools and the delivery. I jocked in the '45 rpm days until I discovered that news was more challenging, and I still remember the air-traffic-control euphoria of running a flawless board in a high-intensity format. You had to be on your game, for sure, and that extended to every aspect of your performance. Clicking a "next" button isn't the same.

The old equipment in news brought out similarly stronger on-air performances. Manual typewriters produced punchier copy; that's why NBC stuck with manuals long after other nets went with word processors. The Ampex 601, a reel tape machine that originated in the field but soon became an essential tool in the newsroom, was a nimble, cooperative friend for years. All through the 1970's, newscasts were built around great tape, from those 601's. Now, sound in a newscast is more incidental, it's not punched up the way is used to be, and newscasts are flabbier as a result.

I'll say this, though: there are newsroom tools today that give you some unimaginable advantages over the old gear. At K103, I use a Vox Pro for recording and editing, and Z100's old Instant Replay for playback. I work faster and more efficiently than I ever have. I can edit down a 6-cut montage on Vox Pro in less than a minute; that used to be unthinkable with splicing tape, grease pencils, and razor blades. And though I'm writing on a computer instead of hammering on a Remington the way I did at KIMN in 1971, what I lose in punchiness, I make up for in better-written and edited copy.

Bottom line: the old tools helped created the sound we put out there, years ago. The new tools require an adjustment, but definitely have their advantages. It's up to us to keep the old-school standards high, while finding ways of letting the new-school gear get us there.

And yeah, net joins were great fun. I used to find songs that would get me precisely to the top of the hour--in the exact key as the network news sounder. I'm such a geek.

What the hell good are these type of posts? Take a listen to those old airchecks (don't rely on your own memories..they just get better with age) The jocks used EVERY Cliche in the book, puked their brains out and it was all about trying to cram as many USELESS sentances into a 14 second intro. I think now the job market is more competitive than ever and jox have to spend hours prepping a 4 hour show (not just grabbing the wire feeds and reading whats printed on the record labels) You have to be fresh and new, not just "Hey, hey everBODY, its big JOHN hit the wax and stackin'tha tracks with another hit on Old fart raaaaa-D-OHHHHHHHHHHHH! The thing is, jocks today can still hit the post and talk up a ramp without sounding like it (listen to how hard those old jox stretched and filled to get there..nowadays its more natural)

LISTEN..The old days are NEVER COMING BACK!

here's a fresh new idea, do something about the future instead of dwelling on the past.

"in the exact key as the network news sounder."

NBC's chimes G - E - C had their root in the song "Over There"

http://www.old-time.com/misc/chimes.html

Sounds like Where_am_ i should switch to decaf. I worked at several stations when progressive format was the only musical entertainment worth tuning in for and opening the mike over the intro to a song was strictly forbidden. Talking over the fades was encouraged. That takes way more talent then watching a clock count the seconds to a post, which if you have any musical talent in you at all you can feel without a clock. Mixing your voice with the music is a lot tougher than just stomping all over it with a mic channel that pots the music down for you to begin with. I remember reading earth news where music under was a requirement. Great place to slip in some jazz or jazz/rock fusion. We didn't have Tool but we had King Crimson.
Jocks today make me laugh. All about their big voice. Shit, I could program my Mac to have Zarvox do overnights and Vicki in the morning with Bruce on news, Trinoids doing middays, Fred on in the afternoon drive, and Junior doing evenings. They will read at the break what I write for them ... who needs to pay anyone for voice tracking. Let the machine do it.

One the fun things I enjoyed about being live on the air were when friends would come and visit. After about a half and hour of watching me work I would ask them, "So is it what you expected?" The answer was always "no."

Those cue lights and secondary tones on the carts that had lights flashing, the different colored lights for when the request line was ringing or the hot line, was sometimes more entertaining than any disco ball. My friends would just get big-eyed and baffle at how sound, lights and the insanity of running a board could work so well with only one person at the controls.

I would invite them to put on the headphones so they could hear and then see how you start a cart, key the mic, talk up the ramp, hit the post and turn off the mic and be so calm afterward. They certainly got a deeper appreciation when they were listening on the other side of the mic. Back timing into the net always was fun too.

So when my friends come over to my home studio and I show them how I am doing it now, they still marvel.

It's still radio and I still love it. I am thankful for the old days but appreciate today as well.

To show you just how quickly things are changing, today I donated my "old" Fostex DAT machine (rack mount version) to "The Old Studio Library". It's a place where high school kids can learn recording techniques. I haven’t used the DAT machine in about 2 years or longer. The need is gone. Just like my old 5050 B multi-track.

There are many talented personalities on the air today that I enjoy listening to. And like John mentioned above, I would choose Vox Pro any day over tape for cutting up phone bits.

But radio like classic cars, there is something cool about sitting around with friends talking about a 65 Mustang or 68 Camaro (sorry if I left out your favorite classic car).

"But radio like classic cars, there is something cool about sitting around with friends talking about a 65 Mustang or 68 Camaro (sorry if I left out your favorite classic car)."

That C3 (81?) Corvette you drove was very cool.

A lot cooler than most of the tunes CJ made you play.

Where am i should tune in a Rhythmic CHR station. The way some try to pull off the "street lingo" stuff, they might as well be puking their brains out.

Andy,

Yes, that was a 81. (Now, back to radio) Don't make fun of the music, KMJK had some huge ratings in the early 80's.

The good thing about radio today is that one can ignore it. That always makes it go away!

This is a FANTASTIC THREAD!!!!

I won't bore anyone with my long winded take, but I will say that with todays technology there is less need for real people, but it makes radio less of a profession, and it shows. The streamlined flow that the new way brings sucks all the warmth out in many cases... and while a CoolEdit type program sure eases the production burden, the problem still remains that "tight and bright", retake the VT till it's right, removes the immediacy and connectivity. THE HUMAN ELEMENT! That, and too many spots are edited so tight , that they sound like a 30 or 60 second run on sentence...... really, an occasional breath is allowed!

Roger, if you or anyone else is recutting "the VT 'til it sounds right" then that is probably part of the problem. As it has been mentioned before, Tom Parker was #1 in Houston and many others have been very successful trackers. Why? Because they don't sit there recutting voice tracks a million times. They cut a track as if it were a live break and if they screw up, they screw up. This is what makes them human and it is what makes them sound real to a listener. You'll probably find the VTers with "perfect" shows are probably not that successful...and not that talented.

You are right, this is a FANTASTIC thread. It shows us that the people who have embraced change are still in love with the business. Those who have fought change are just sitting around complaining and trying to take the fun out of it for the rest of us. This tread was a good reminder that great radio and bad radio are both connected to the attitude of the person behind the mic.

Amen Nwradio.

This picture from Hazen thread pertains to some of this discussion. No computer is visible in the picture.
http://www.hazen.co.nz/Public/Baker01.jpg

Yes, there was something exciting about the BIG BOOMING QUALITY of late 60's to mid 70's "boss jocks", and all of the freaky production, and screamer jocks, and "comin' at you live!" and jingles from hell. But one thing I've noticed listening to that old stuff on-line, is those big voiced jocks hemmed and hawed a lot. They did enough "uhhhhs...." to compete with Bill O'Reilly.

I don't think they airchecked much because 1) the technology wasn't really that handy, and 2) they were so powerful and were making so much money, who was going to tell them what to do?

Jocks respond to the cracked whip these days. They have to, or THEY'RE GONE, BABY.

You can set up a reel to reel machine in a few seconds and then all that's needed is turning it on and off. It's just not that difficult! Welcome back Mr Erickson! I'm glad to see you remembered your password.

S.N. "Don't make fun of the music, KMJK had some huge ratings in the early 80's"

Yes, we did. Because it was entertaining and well received by the targeted demographic. Most of our talent were professionals (lets not go any further there) and the production studio was state of the art and people put in the hours making the promos good. And we sounded sonically as good if not better than our major competitors on the dial (ahem!) But the music, for the large part, was flash in the pan. Mostly groups that are long gone now, underscoring the lack of true musical significance of top track formats. They're here, they're gone. But I'll be the first to admit that's what the young audience wants. Still, it doesn't make those tunes universally "cool." Sorry. Uh uh.

NWRadio "Those who have fought change are just sitting around complaining and trying to take the fun out of it for the rest of us."

That's harsh and inaccurate. Many of the complaints I have with radio broadcasting are founded in the deregulation of ownership and the commoditization of licenses. Not in how popular format radio is produced. Regardless of when someone might get the chance to play with expensive toys way more expensive than what one could otherwise have access to, that's a good thing. I think in a few cases, though, young folk equate this access to experience. People get into broadcasting for different reasons. Originally, for me, sitting in a little room with 10,000 LP's and no playlist was the cats meow. When jobs like that became too far and few between, I went into engineering since that's what I studied. And it served me well through AM FM TV and beyond. So for me, today's broadcast jobs just can't be equated with what it meant to be a live jock in the past. I think this has been sufficiently substantiated by the posts of those who still work at it today who also remember the industry before it got gutted of diverse ownership. In 1990, e.g. this market had 14 FM stations with 14 different owners. Those 13 of those 14 licenses are now owned by 3 companies. This has eliminated a lot of jobs and a lot of diversity in the entertainment and news you now can get. Again, drawing comparisons is difficult, but these changes have driven people out of the industry so that big companies can make larger profits. This is not the spirit with which the government intended for broadcasting, rather it is the result of poor decision making on the part of politicians who are guilty of bowing to special interests instead of guaranteeing the rights of the general population. So if those facts are "taking the fun out of it" for you, so be it.

Andy,

I do not deny that a lot of good people have been forced out. However, it has been my experience that those who love what they do, find a way to adapt. Talk to people in banking, grocery stores, or healthcare and you'll find their industries are all consolidating. Good people in all industries have lost their jobs to consolidation.

I think the problem is, we all isolate ourselves and lose sight of the big picture. I started doing overnights 25+ years ago and I remember the night job complaining every night about how the business was going to hell and how it wasn't fun anymore. He was really talented and before I started at the station, all I wanted to do was be half as good as he was. A month into the job, all I could think about was how sick I was of hearing him whine. I was excited about the business, and I didn't know how "things used to be." I just knew that I loved radio and I was having fun. I also knew I NEVER wanted to be THAT guy. Old, bitter, and too stupid to see that he got to play music for a living. I was still amazed that people got paid to play music when their (and mine) education level said digging ditches would be a wiser choice. Soon the station owners decided to automate overnights and guess who got to keep their job?

We say things aren't like they used to be - and they aren't. However, I know that right now there is a kid just getting into radio (although it probably isn't on overnights) and the way things are is the ONLY way he/she knows. That kid is just as excited now as we were then. However, instead of telling him/her how I wish things were like they were when I got into the business, I'm going to tell that kid how grateful I am for the life this business has afforded me. I'll talk about how much respect I have for the past, and how much excitement I have for the future. I'll talk about how amazed I am, and how lucky I feel that I can listen on a computer and hear myself on the air in another city. I'll talk about getting fired when formats flipped and when ownership changed. And, I'll talk about passing on "real" jobs when I was out of work, just so I could wait for a radio job that paid less.

This business has been cruel to me, and to a lot of people on this board. However it has also been wonderful to me, to my family, and to generations of listeners. It was taken from me and it has given to me. At the end of the day, I still can't think of anything I would rather do. So, while I am often tempted to complain, I still refuse to be like the night jock who tainted my view of the business.

I realize this board would be a lot less entertaining if everyone talked about how much they loved stations, companies, and talent. I get that. I just wish there was more time dedicated to were we are going and less time devoted to wishing we could have stayed were we were.

Andy....well put...I too love the industry and even though I never attempted to work in Portland, the last almost 27 years are something that I would never ever do over...granted I'm on the sales side now, but every once in awhile I get to fill in on a shift and I'm still doing production and I absolutely LOVE what I do. We can never turn back the hands of time and relive those old days except in our memories but we can certainly encourage those who are getting into the industry today and helping them to enjoy the many things that the industry has to offer.

you said........

At the end of the day, I still can't think of anything I would rather do.

Me too.... So it's that much harder to not be doing it. Knowing you can, should, aren't and probably won't.....

It can be absolutely crushing at times... I KNOW I am a better radio professional than a Greeting Card Installation leader and phone survey taker...

There is value in passion.

And yet you continue to complain Roger..

Here is what is lost with v/t vs. live radio people. As I have observed. Jox today, don't know how to cope when the computer glitches...there is no such thing as YELLOW ALERT/CODE RED when audio drops, they stand there futzing with the computer with no concept of dead air until the computer is re-booted, re-formatted etc...

OR

The new problem areas are with programming...JOHN TESH on a powerhouse of K103 at 7:15 pm repeating exactly what he was programmed to say at 7:10, stop set and then here comes JOHN TESH again to say the same thing again...

Voice Trackers are only as good as the programming department.

THE OLD LIVE RADIO GUYS must like I SHUTTER at the automated mistakes we all hear today...

QUALITY is gone...
and so is the live ad lib talent of being able to open the mike and talk, communicate about something anything...no -- dead air would be the new preferred choice. There is no talent left to fill the voice a machine makes.

You idiots forget, automation has been around for almost 50 years. And was not unusual for a cart to play twice, or a reel to be eaten up. Jocks screw up now just like they have in the past. Nobody is ever perfect. I am in a control room EVERYDAY, and have seen plenty of servers crash and CD's fail to cue, or power fail, the only people that "Freaked Out" and couldn't figure out what to do where the same jox you think were so great in the 60's or 70's. Because these younger kids know that a computer can crash, and that they have to wait for either a reboot or just grab some CD's and have some fun.

You hate technology so much, yet you RELY on your PC so you can come on here and bitch about how computers supposedly killed radio. Hey hypocrite, why don't you bitch about horse and buggy's being so much nicer than your car...dumbass.

I do agree with much of what Where_am_i said. The tone in his post was a bit biting.

Actually, Chris, early automation sucked pretty bad. It relied on a lot of electromechanicals working flawlessly 24/7 and it rarely did.
Automation today is almost purely electronic except for media storage and with RAID arrays or equivalent techniques, no electronic file can ever be lost. No oil needed anymore. No foil tape that didn't work, etc. etc. I don't think Where_ gets the point, though. It's not computers that killed radio, its people in high places that killed radio. I don't think anyone here hates computers, and I don't think any of us are idiots or dumbass either. Where_ is frankly unable to deal with the real messages here. His rudeness is really uncalled for. Radio today is an easy target for anyone, not just veterans of the business, many of whom hang out around here holding many years of experience and a desire to chat about WHATEVER THE HELL WE WANT TO.
Seems to me if being an asshole is the only way Where_ can communicate, it is he who has the problem, not us.

Hear, hear, Andy!

From the radio history "Gresham's KRDR" posted April 20, 2002. 46 years ago:

(1960) "According to Daniel M. Peak, President, G.M. & C.E., KGRO is the only automated station in Multnomah County. The station is able to play up to 4 1/2 hours of music on it's "Gates Night Watch" system. The machine plays records & tapes, relieving D.J's from the 6-10pm time slot."

You are right. I am sorry. From now on, everything is perfect. I will get a warm fuzzy feeling everytime a new format is announced. Anytime another syndicated program replaces a live time slot, or an airshift is totally eliminated, I will applaud the cost savings. Less is more... GREAT IDEA! Emphasizing a stations web presence, while running a streamlined interchangeable sound. Absolutely wonderful! I look forward to being able to hear a superstar talent like Whoopi Goldberg in every city I travel to. I take comfort in knowing that where ever I am, I have a good chance of hearing professional broadcasters like Bob and Tom, rather than some amature local yokel fumbling through some pile of local interest factoids. And I really will appreciate it in places where a station will replay highlights from shows like B-n-T throughout the day in lieu of more boring local drivel.

I tell you, like a kid waiting for christmas morning, I anxiously await the day where centralised terrestrial broadcasting becomes a reality. A company like CC should take a page from the sat-rad playbook, and run the six most popular formats from one location beaming them to all of their stations. Now that will be truly exciting!

I sure hope the new Movin' station in Portland keeps their sound clean and doesn't clutter it up by adding airstaff. Who needs the interruptions! Play the tunes, run a commercial from a company offering me a product or service that I need and nothing else. LEAN AND MEAN! NO EXTRA CRAP!

I hope with my attitude adjustment we can be friends now. It's important that we be friends.

Think positive!

Car accident? Good, Some dealer will sell another car, Good for the economy. Injuries? the local hospital makes a few bucks too. Death? Somewhere a newborn takes their place.

Six inches of rain and heavy flooding? Great. Home remodelers and building suppliers will earn more, and as an environmental benefit, the aquafers will be refilled and the influx of water into the rivers and ocean will help cleanse them!

WOW I LIKE THE NEW POSITIVE ME!

I hated reel to reel. And carts. I'm glad they're gone...if I want to listen to vinyl, I go home and listen to it.

Only a man with no talent blames his faults on his tools.

And let's all remember that just because we don't like something, that doesn't mean that it is talentless...it's just not our thing.

I will, however, take the exception to the rule with most pop music when it comes to the above statement....=)

From Ricksalemradio
To Where_am_i

Cool off, chill out...I do love computers, I am upset that the new kids can fix the computer, but have no respect (in my observations) for DEAD air.

Being one of the "new kids" I feel that I should speak up.

My stomach hits the floor every time I hear dead air. I get anxious when I hear it, especially from one of the stations in my cluster.

There are some of us who respect it. Maybe you feel that some of us don't...but needless to say...dead air does happen. Equipment does fail...and that's part of my job to care enough to get us back on the air. The other part is to make it so it never happens in the first place.

Thank you...we need more people like you...Bravo!

NWRadio said " I do not deny that a lot of good people have been forced out. However, it has been my experience that those who love what they do, find a way to adapt."

Amen.

Also, I imagine that most of you waxing poetic on this thread for the "good ole days" are white males. My ex, a middle-aged guy, also used to talk with misty eyes about the "tactile - part of the great machine" experience that I missed.

But the fact is, if I HAD been his age and tried to get into radio when he did, I still wouldn't have had that experience because back in the day, there was little if any chance a woman - or a minority - would have been given the opportunity.

I'll take computers, voicetracking and digital phone editors any day of the week over what was happening in the past. Yeah, there may be fewer jobs, but at least I have a chance to get one of those gigs now.

Excuse me Radiodawgz. First of all, what is wrong
with "white males". Are you some kind of racist? Just kidding. Radio opened up for women in the early 70's. However, it took a long time for women to realize that broadcasting was a career option. You obviously were not there. In regard to the equipment, I agree, the new toys are great. Especially in the production room. Saves hours, right? Oh, except for the little tiny fact that there are only a couple of us to do all of it now, since everybodys else has been let go. So, we still spend hours in that stuffy little room. The point I was attempting to make on this thread, was that the immediacy of radio "then" with all of it's "hands on" equipment, is what created the focus and the excitement. Most everybody got it. Except you.

This has been an interesting discussion, but perhaps a bit myopic in that there was a whole other world before there were carts and reel-to-reel. Recently, I was watching some archive.org educational films from the 1930s-1940s showing how the network broadcasts of the day were done. They had a lot of studio engineers in those days, and sound effects were done live.

I am sure that a very similar discussion to this one took place in the 1950s-1960s, as the following changes took place:

* Magnetic tape recording eliminated the need for live performance of music (like the pianist that would fill in for dead air when there were technical problems).

* Carts cut down on the need for live reads and therefore announcers

* Compressors and limiters caused many studio sound technicians to be let go because it was no longer necessary to have somebody constantly adjusting levels.

* The rise of DJ-driven radio caused further loss of board operator, announcer, and studio muscian jobs.

Excellent point Alfredo. Our business has been changing since it started. Radio was all but written off with the advent of TV. But it survived. AM was dead when FM became popular, but it survived. Today many lament about what radio has become, but somehow I expect it to survive again.

"Today many lament about what radio has become, but somehow I expect it to survive again."

It will, but it isn't the same beast as it was before 1996. Too many in the thread are focusing on the hardware, or even the software. What's changed is the purpose radio now serves. I mean really, how interesting would the NFL be if all the teams were owned by 4 companies? How interesting would going out to eat dinner be if all the restaraunts in town were owned by 4 companies? Radio licenses are now corporate assets and the air signal is a commodity to be bought, traded, sold with only bottom line concerns and stockholder gains in mind. That is not to say that radio wasn't a business all along, but as I said, it's not the same. Like cell phone licenses, or cable, or satellite, the government has pushed the "two competitors makes for free enterprise" mantra onto radio. It's not about DJ's or PD's or GM's or SM's or CE's, its about an industry that's been metamorphisized into something that IMO lacks something that it used to have, but doesn't anymore.

Andy...so true about the old automation systems. I was fortunate enough to be around an engineer who was so anal about that equipment that if it broke down or didn't work perfect every time he'd be all over it.

I am enjoying my radio career despite the changes and despite being hammered by those who are anti voice tracking. I have been on both sides of the fence. Working for an independent ownership away from the big boys is refreshing. We have been in the market we serve for over 5 years now. That's staying power even with a start up station.

Just today alone, we voice tracked our morning show, I voiced and produced a 30 TV spot for one of our clients and have a 3 minute industrial read later. My total workday will be less than 4 hrs! Since I love the work it's felt like play.

Morning show host, production director, voice talent. Sounds a lot like what I did while working for someone else making 1/3 of what I make today. And I get to see my kids off to school in the morning and I’m usually home when they come home from school.

I think the rest of you are crazy having to work for someone else and being told when to come to work and when you can leave, and being underpaid and in some cases under-appreciated. And you want ME to be “Live” and leave all this??

Sounds like you landed in a decent operation. Independent ownership must survive although in so many markets the competition can out promote you with big budgets. Beating them requires doing a really good job. Something that the big boys do not concentrate on. Corporate radio has always been about the tail wagging the dog and post 1996 consolidation only magnifies that.

Good to hear someone is still having fun at it and getting the bills paid without being a slave.

All I know is that if Where_am_I is representative of the attitude prevailing in the corporate radio world, I'm not impressed. I mean after many years as an engineer I've met some pretty boneheaded jocks with attitudes, but really, if Where_am_I pulled that kind of mentality at the job with a superior, he'd be gone pretty quick. It's easy for him to be a jerk online anonymously.

Andy says:

"Independent ownership must survive although in so many markets the competition can out promote you with big budgets. Beating them requires doing a really good job."

Andy- It's called consistency.

I've been around more than my share of automation systems over the years, including a home-brew system built in the late 50's, complete with clicks, pops, whirrs and a step tome that literally sounded like a fart! Some of the commercials and promos were on MacKenzie Repeaters. I've had to deal with plenty of automation, old and new. And I got the same thrill making a spotset fit in the satellite break as I did hitting the post or pulling off the perfect segue. A little sad, but true.

The problem with radio today is the same as it's always been: you have to program to its limitations. If you're stuck with an automation system, you can strive to sound like (insert station here, back in the day I'd say KFRC), but chances of sounding that good are slim (pun intended - see Mike Phillips thread) to none.

If you have an air staff, but with weak part-timers, you might program more music, but you allow some opportunities for greener talent to make mistakes and learn. When a jock makes a mistake, he or she knows it, and growth happens. An automation system does not.

I believe automation and satellite music formats have make small stations sound bigger, and automation combined with shrinking airstaff budgets have made big market stations sound smaller. Neither are good in the long run, but maybe the corporate owner or the always cash-strapped independent isn't looking that far ahead.

Just about every aspect of the delivery system has changed in the last 25 years, but radio still has all the same elements it's always had, talking, music, commercials. But the end user still has to want to activate a device and tune it. Listeners have always accepted some human error, but what must they be thinking about all the errors automation makes today. I know that when my station's automation failed to play Paul Harvey, the phone would ring. Do listeners accept such mistakes today? Do they think that someone is there, actually playing two commercials at once?
Or do listeners just tune out?

First off Andy...NOBODY ON THIS BOARD IS MY BOSS. I can promise you that. Most of the PD/GM's in this city don't read this board, let alone care what anyone here has to say, sorry but its the truth... Next, even if I did come on here with my real name, I would still talk ish to you, because you are acting like a little b*tch. I speak da truth... OH SNAP!

By Where_am_i on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 9:47 pm:
First off Andy...NOBODY ON THIS BOARD IS MY BOSS. I can promise you that. Most of the PD/GM's in this city don't read this board, let alone care what anyone here has to say, sorry but its the truth... Next, even if I did come on here with my real name, I would still talk ish to you, because you are acting like a little b*tch. I speak da truth... OH SNAP!

If you post from work, they don't have to read this board, they can track your actions ... besides, do you think for a minute they would tell you if they did ... do you think for a minute you could talk your trash to them directly (which if you read my post is what I inferred) and survive. You're wet behind the ears. Grow Up. This board is not just about what you want it to be. Being an obnoxious son of a bitch won't get you anything but criticism, and eventually it bleeds into your real identity ... then again, it probably already has.

*plonk*


Remember, we are only seperated by six people. The club of broadcasters is considerably smaller, so let's cut it in half. That's three people.

So, you bitch here and somebody you know talks to a good friend and all of the sudden this thread gets a lot of hits and you're cooked.

If that's not brutal enough, consider your words are archived here for a good long time. If you put your foot in it, the record is here for all to see (even that friend) and laugh at long after you have forgotten having done it.

On the net, what comes around goes around. In a small club like yours, it all just does not have that far to go. Ask Newport radio about that.

Missing,

I didn't know Freddies lets employees get personal calls at work, especially when there's always an emergency like "WET CLEAN-UP, AISLE 7, ASAP!!!".

I doubt he can even listen to a radio at work (except during lunch in his car), he's forced to listen to Muzak like Lionel Ritchie his entire shift.

I've been amazed at the number of people that I work with that have came up to me commenting on something I was discussing on this board. And yes, PD's DO read this board. So do a number of well respected radio people. I've had discussions about things on here with a number of them.


It's a small, small world in radio. If I don't know a jock, I have 10 friends who were/are good buddies with them at some point.

By Where_am_i on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 9:47 pm:
Most of the PD/GM's in this city don't read this board, let alone care what anyone here has to say

Well isn't that an interesting comment???I know quite a few people who do read this board and they do sit in high places in this industry so I would most certainly care about what I say here. Perhaps you've missed the news stories about how companies are now using the internet to find out more about you, ie: myspace!

Let's just say that we all need to keep it civil and to not make statments without validating fact. Andy, Mrs_merkin, and Copernicus all bring up some extremely valid points.

As a wise and trusted soul told me many years ago: Loose Lips Sink Ships!

Well, if PD's and GM's do read this. HIRE SOME PEOPLE and quit voicetracking. Your killing your own product.

Matt..you are a man of infinite wisdom! Hope that all is well for you, man!!

Lander

Great! Now I'm going to be out of a job. Just one more piece of white trash looking for a real radio job.

It's easy to forget that there are a lot of people who read this forum but never post. In addition to that, search engine spiders crawl through these discussions. What makes you think that if your management did read this board that they would actually tell you, Mr. (or Ms.) Where_am_I?

Hey everyone. Joel Hollender here. To answer the question that is on a lot of your minds, yes, those of us in upper management do read these radio boards. I myself spend hours a day reading topics such as "Best TV show theme" and "KOHI St. Helens for sale" in between making decisions that affect the lives of tens of thousands of people.

I'm sorry to hear that some of you don't agree with our policies regarding voice tracking, but you have to understand, we just don't care about you. You know, because we are a corporation. It's nothing personal, you're just pretty much one notch above worthless to us in the grand scheme of things, and if you give us even the slightest reason, we'll can you and replace you with Ms. Robotradioperson from Montpelier.

I'd love to chat more, but I'm about to pop in season 2 of Airwolf, and I love that Jan Michael Vincent.

Joel

....and I love that Jan Michael Vincent. In fact, I was thinking about giving him a call and asking if he might want to do a syndicated morning show that we could put on 50 or 60 stations.

Joel

Paul -- That was classic!!!

Thanks Matt, but that wasn't me. He's Phil Walker, I'm Paul Walker. KOHI in St. Helens is for sale???

Chris....WHAT?? YOU are NOT "white trash"!! I'm the loser from Vancouver, remember!!

Hope that you and Barb are well, old friend!

Thanks bro! How are things down south? Are you still there?

Barb and I are simply loving life and living big. Even though Barb barely reaches 5 foot 2.

Life is good in Cali!! It's FINALLY cooled down and it feels (a bit)like Oregon. We had a good spike in the Summer Book.

Otherwise, there are LOTS of palm trees down here and I'm STILL bald.

Apologies Paul...... I will pay closer attention next time.

Are you frozen yet in Chicago???

Otherwise, there are LOTS of palm trees down here and I'm STILL bald.

Gross lander, that is more info than we need to know.

Oh....Your head LOL! My bad. I was thinking that you shaved your........oh nevermind.

One thing I remember about the older deejays was that they seemed to always talk before a record ends, especially when it fades out and a lot of records used the fade out ending. To use an example I just now heard 910 play the Drifters' big hit "Save the last dance for me" and the song was done before the commercial started. In the past the talking might have started when the fade out started. In a lot of ways the deejays of old were fun to listen to. But I hated not being able to listen to an entire song!

There was a programming theory at one time that there should be no "dead air" between when a song ended and a commercial started. By "dead", I mean always something musical underneath. Before the days of music beds, this often meant the jock would talk over the end of the record until the commercial started to keep the music flow going. I worked for a PD once who insisted on this, even with "cold vocal" endings! A different era to be sure.

That's a pretty good point in that of the few music programs that still have air personalities, it seems that very few if any of the DJs "talk out" the ends of the records. In my opinion, this is important because it helps to carry the "momentum" of the format over the upcoming break. I just don't know how you could work such a talkover into a song with a cold vocal ending. When DJs were still a common sound on the airwaves, I remember that records were rarely allowed to play all the way to the end (on pop formats), and one purpose that might have served was to get around these awkward situations.

Related question: Is allowing songs to play all the way to the end without the song being "talked out" more acceptable to the listener today because we have several generations that have grown up with Walkmans, portable CD players, and mp3 players?

That could well be the reason. Also how many deejays play records anymore? Except for the Stoner of course! But I wonder if he plays CD's. Many of the hits we grew up with are now on CD.

Alfredo, to try and answer your question, I think today's younger listener has indeed grown-up with a somewhat different mindset (and different technology), but remember old records also faded out completely too. And if you listen closely, especially to Top40, country, and even AC, you will still hear jocks over the end of the record as much as ever. (That is, the stations that still utilize jocks!)

BTW, there is atleast one station in almost every major market that uses the slogan,
"We never talk all over your music"...can't think of one that is doing particularly well however. Which leads me to believe the average listener just doesn't care.

A good jock was "there"....bam, right on the money. When that song ended, cold vocal, or vocal-stinger. Moving forward with a quick hit, it sounded great. "......oooooh pretty woman!" (Bam) "94.5 KXXX WITH THE BIG O....5:18...I'm your jock. (spot set) Dyanmics! THE whole idea was (and this is why I think "jock were better then") is that people listened to the radio for the music, then the jocks, in that order. The jocks just rode the music like surfers, employing the "less is more" theory. Moving the radio station from one event to the next, cleverly and smoothly. And by the way.....I remember most songs being played in their entirety. They just weren't allowed to fade out all the way. As for "dead air", dead air was just that, dead air. Which meant no sound at all. Talking without a bed running under one, was fine, as long as it was short, tight and bright and and carried the momentum forward.

Beware of Good 'ol Day syndrome. We sometimes make things from the past sound better than they were.

Well.. there is absolutely nothing great about Radio today,sooo might as well go back to when radio actually put on a great product. Its so weird to think at one time radio stations actually cared about their listeners.

I loved the "larger than life" feeling that stations projected and you can't do that without great personalities!

the good ole days...small market radio, and here we have a lost dog report, etc...it was so much a pain in the ass, it sounded small, it was small, but did we connect with even one corner, one physical corner of a neighborhood, yes...and do we connect with even one listener now...can you prove it? I agree on beware of good ole days, but was this connection the upside of it?

Please don't confuse good radio with "good old day syndrome". 'Jocks were better then' for a number of reasons. Here are a few that, I feel led to the dumbing-down of air talent. 1. slide pots 2. powerful stations hiring no-talent idiots, thus creating the illusion for a younger generation that "these guys must be good, they're on the big station, gosh, I want to be like them, so I'll practice being an idiot,too."
3. Jocks who think their time on the air is all about "meeeeeee". It's not, it's about the station. YOu are just the host. 4. more technical failures in the digital era, at most stations, to provide jock-friendly "joy stick" controls in the control room so the on-air person could stay focused on her/his delivery knowing their hands were on the controls ready to fire that next event. instead of a keyboard and mouse that, trust me, were never ergonomically designed to do anything other than manipulate documents. And finally, 5. The corporate take overs.

Its time to blow up smooth Jazz up. Another lifeless station that Cheap channel put minimum effort into. It amazes me how that company survies putting on such half assed products. Maybe if they spent the time money and effort into getting some live air talent That actually has some passion, the station wouldn't change format every few years. When will cheap channel put something on 105.9 that is worth listening to? My guess is never because they are too damn cheap.

I think they'll wait until the ratings peak. It's been just about a year.

Radio isn't dead, and it isn't dying.

It's just different now then it once was.

Oh it be dead friend.

Dead as in the past is dead and the future is bleak.

Radio already has critically serious competition from so many things I can't name them all anymore and the industry response is "automate, consolidate, syndicate and eliminate".

None of those concepts having to do with developing new talent worth hearing.

Here's a bit of proof that great radio worked...and maybe still does.....I haven't been on the air for years....Yet, I called someone in the Corvallis/Albany area today and THEY RECOGNIZED MY VOICE!!!!!
God was I ever shocked!!!! We made an impact on people back then....
I used to drive up to a gas station and ask the person to "fill it up with _____-"
It wasn't uncommon for them to ask, "Are you on the radio?" THEY RECOGNIZED THE VOICE...
We made such huge connections back then....with our voices...with what we gave our listeners during our shows....information, fun,
I almost cried when someone who hadn't heard my voice in 10 years recognized me JUST BY MY VOICE!
Maybe not ALL JOCKS were better then....but LOCAL RADIO was DEFINITELY better then.
But maybe that phone call was just a dream...NO IT REALLY HAPPENED. I MISS RADIO!!!!!!!!

Valley Girl-

I have been voice tracking in Coos Bay over 5 years now. From time to time I will call someone to get more information concerning an event they'll be doing that we want to help promote. I often get the same reaction you got before I can get my name out.

You can still connect with your audience even if you are not live.

So Chris,
You're saying that a station like Z100 who had amazing talent back in the day, We're live, local are Just as good and can connect just as well with the mess that they have today. So you think those out of state voice tracked dj's on Z100 today can connect with the audience just as well as say Tony Martinez or Val Ring did back in the day???
I disagree Chris, With most formats you have to be live and local
if you want to have that magic. Z100 no longer has that magic in my opinion. The dj's are are more passive, they come and go so quickly and nobody really cares about them. ( sorry to keep using Z100 as an example, but growing up with Z100 as a young girl that station was A HUGE part of my life and I will ALWAYS remember the dj's that made that station so great. Today when I turn on Z100 and hear the dj's trying to connect with the audience, I can't help but laugh. It's really sad how Z100 has gotten this bad.

There is some middle ground here.

Nothing wrong with a well researched and presented VT production. It's a defensible adaptation to the times. Chris has posted his means and methods here many times.

Z100, during the time you write about was a really special station. We don't often get those. Comparing the two directly is really not valid, IMHO.

A big part of the problem is that the majors in the industry are not willing to pay for connecting. They want personalities just like they want hits. Repeatable, changeable and scaleable.

Those that do the connecting in the VT world, do it for the love of the medium. They also do it because they have worked hard at finding ways to do it. It's all up to whoever is producing the show.

Setting that aside, the majors really could care less on that score. If this were not true, we would be seeing some prep time being set aside, workshops and other scaleable elements necessary to cultivate this kind of thing.

With this comes a degree of control not often allowed these days. Where there is some creative freedom allowed, connections happen.

Fix that and people will connect live and local, VT or even automation. Listeners can easily detect another mind behind the scenes. The level of connection varies with the medium chosen, but is always possible.

Put things in the way, such as computers and managers, and you lose the connection. It's really that simple.

The loop between those producing the show and their listeners must be closed for any spark to occur. Tight controls do not allow this closure to occur because it's all predetermined. --No human element allowed.

In this way, computers are just like people. The only difference is how messy they are over time!

Beano-

I worked at Z100 with those very individuals in Z100s heyday. And you are certainly correct about their ability to connect with the listener.

What I am stating is we still have that connection with listeners in Coos Bay. I know this because we visit the area at least once a year for a big station event. People who listen to our morning show comment directly to us. I have mentioned many times on this thread that a woman in our demos who was a winner in one of our larger promoted concerts, said it feels like my wife and I are sitting at her breakfast table everyone morning.

That's called connecting to the listener. It can still happen. Is it the best thing for radio? No!

I feel blessed to have worked with some the best this town has had over the years. I have gained much just being around them, but I have also learned to adapt. Which means I have learned how to connect with the listener in a different way. No matter how you look at it, it's still a connection.

Z100 has turned into the biggest Crap hole and that station no longer has ANY credibility. Those voice tracked jocks Can't connect with an audience as hard as they try. If Ken Benson or any of the former Pd's at that station were to listen to Z100 today they would be laughing their asses off. That station has not been able to connect with an audience for a long time!! Nobody listens to Z100 to hear some great talent along with the tunes, they listen to Z100 for the MUSIC Only and don't give a crap about who's on the air. Not only is the talent not nearly as good as it used to be, BUT the dj's change every few months so how can anybody build a connection with them?
There once was a day when people actually listened to Z100 because of the jocks, those days are GONE!!!! RIP Z100!

Cheap channel should set the standards in the broadcasting industry for WHAT NOT to do. Learn from their MISTAKES because Cheap channel is making plenty of them!

I still listen to FM radio for 70/30...70% the personality and 30% the music, without the DJ it's just music and I have my CD or MP3 collection in that case. The Jock has to be local...someone you can call in and talk with...and must be entertaining...ie have a personality and not just a line card reader. The jocks at Rock Hits were just that before it vanished from my dial and many others. You could call in shoot the bull with them about some artist or new music and every show had great giveaways. Tim, Wood, and Stacey...I will miss you guys....you were a great team..hope to hear ya back on the air..good luck to all of you!!!

The day of the Jock is not yet done....there are still old timers who will hold out until the bitter end....I know I will. I think KGON will most likely outlast any other Rock station in Portland. Seems like they have it together and work as a team...a family if you will....although Mark and Brian may be the distant cousins you tell everyone they are related to your wifes, step brother, sisters, cousins, uncle.

I think it unfortunate that it will have to hit almost rock bottom before corporate america lets loose of their hold on FM and lets it go back to private ownership, but when that day arrives...and it will...FM may stand a chance to rise from the ashes like a PHOENIX.

Remember when cable TV first started there were no commercials....now look at it....not much better than free TV....Satellite and HD will be the same....as more and more people flock to that media it is only a matter of time before corporate greed takes over that market as well.

Vent...vent...vent...

Have a good one guys and you Jocks hang in there....you still have lots of fans!

We voice track for a small market with a local owner. The listener can't tell if we are voice tracked nor do they care. The smooth jazz format isn't your high personality format to begin with, however we have been able to establish ourselves as a solid morning team. It's all about consistency. No liner cards for us, and lots of local information.

Radio is still fun for us. Plus we can do it from our home. Works for me.

Sounds like you have an ideal job...would love to work from home. As long as there is a local flare I agree that most listeners cannot tell. voice tracking with local people is fine but national voice tracking is obvious. One for sure giveaway is that there is never any live call in. Did not mean that Live was the only way but this National programming sadly lacks "ANY" local feel to it. You guys are from the area and sounds like you do a good job at it....good for you! Some shifts should remain live like the morning and afternoon drive but the other times like nights, weekends, and early morning would probably do fine with you folks. "Wood" from the former Rock Hits did a pretty good job voice tracking his weekend show and I actually shot off an email a couple of times to see if he was actually in the studio. He would pre-announce two or three songs in a row...not just one at a time...throw in a few comments here and there and made it sound as if he was there. Sometimes I could tell but I knew his style pretty good but the average listener would not know the difference. Local voice track is pretty close to an in-house DJ....the only difference is that there is a person or persons there that can take calls. Local voice track is to be expected and is completely acceptable as it will have local flair with it. National tracking sounds so empty and blah....but I suppose there is a market for that as well....I just prefer the more personal...old school feel of radio and it sounds like you try to and give that...

2 cents.....

It seems to me the main defense of voice tracking is coming from those who do it. Voice tracking will never be better than live air talent. As for voice tracking Coos Bay. Wow! Do you really visit the market once a year?

Wannabe-

I have always stated live is best. And yes we do visit the "Bay Area" as the locals call it as part of our yearly vacation.

It is usually a stop along the way or we will go down for a large promotion like their "Music on the Bay Concert series" which will draw over a 1000 people to Mingus Park for a free concert.

This keeps us in touch with the community and it's people. We eat at the popular restaurants, go to the public parks and libraries. So when we talk about the local area we know what we are talking about and sound local.

It’s fun for us. If we find ourselves broadcasting in Portland again we’ll take on the same attitude. As a broadcaster my goal is to inform and entertain the listener. Knowing what’s important to them in their community gives us that connection I have been talking about.

As for what has happened at Z100-it is very difficult to watch a heritage station that I was so much apart of for 5 years tank. To be honest I rarely listen to Portland radio anymore. If I do it’s usually NPR.

out of the dozens of markets and hundreds of jocks and stations represented on this site, WQXI/Gary McKee is the most downloaded and most requested station on this site.

It is easy to hear why. Many many people were influenced in a positive way by this individual and this station......

http://www.airchexx.com/category/markets/atlanta/

http://www.oldiesmusicradio.com/

My favorite is KD radio online. They have the best variety of 50's to the 80's. I wish they were in stereo.

Z100 is a joke!!! An even bigger joke is that stupid Webcam they have in the studio. Hey Cheap channel why do you have a webcam in your studio when most of the shifts are voicetracked? The only thing you get to see on the webcam is some overweight board op picking his nose or scratching his butt.

Hey, Looky Here Everybody!!!!

Well, well, well.

Wayne posted an actual link to something.

Since he has proved he can use links, there is absolutely no reason for us to continue to answer his ridiculous musings and queries, like asking the price of the KISN car/plane, or wondering if Music Millenium had a website,

Now we know he COULD list his sources, if he wanted to, or if they actually existed.


I'm so done!



"Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life, son"

(mom helped.)

Voicetracking..it IS an acquired skill. Before I came to work at CC in Fresno, I could count on one hand how many times I had voicetracked. To be frank and honest, the whole idea scared me to death. I HATED listening to myself, tracked. After a few months of doing it, I gained some confidence. Now, I don't think about it. I voicetrack for a rock station in Victorville/Lancaster, CA. Honestly, it's pretty fun!

Years ago we used to sit around and discuss the reasons why radio was slowly being automated. One reason was that they could do it. "Wow isn't this cool!" Another was economic. Many stations just could not afford a fulltime air staff. Three, am/fm combo stations could easily have their FM jocks do some "drop-ins" on a clunky old automation system assigned to a sister station. But one reason automation and voice tracking are so common today is that we seem to have avoided discussing the fact that some of us were the problem.(and my apologies to the many hard working professionals who never caused a bit of trouble, blah, blah) Yes, it could be that cranky, lazy, ego-manic jocks finally managed to piss off management to the point of demanding better automation systems from the broadcast equipment companies. Is it possible that,as jocks, many of us failed to recognize the fact that radio is a business and must make money to stay in business. So back in the days of individual ownership, we may have contributed to our own demise by not being easier to manage.

Hey Lander, do you know Chuck Geiger?

Nice cheap one there Skep!

Know Chuck?? YES I DO!! He's the PD/morning guy at Big Country 102.7.

and was also once kind enough to sarcasticly invite me to apply for a PT VT job with him....

Am hoping he just has a wicked sense of humor