If so, can't you have them done cheaper in INDIA?

Roger, Interesting question. I did some VTing for an all volunteer station in Central Oregon. No pay, but a chance to be heard in another market.

yes, but were you also out of the area at the time? As much as I am a VT critic, I do understand WHY, but I REALLY take issue with importing them from out of region...i.e. the Detroit VT on portland radio.... Sure Chris Taylor VTs, but he is not only a part of the NW, he can talk it..... sorry, looking up the Oregonian on line from your detroit home then dropping in generic tidbits in the show, is contemptable on the Corporate level!

I don't blame the guy hustling a few extra dollars, but I do blame local management who can't find a LOCAL to do it..........

> If so, can't you have them done cheaper in INDIA?

Shh Shhhh, Roger! Don't give anybody any ideas. It certainly could happen sometime. Currently, Art Bell's show is being "outsourced" to the Philippines. I wonder how much Art is getting paid to do the show from over there.

Remote technologies are only gonna improve.

One can setup a damn fine home studio for a few grand. Couple that with a nice net connection and it's not too much of a stretch to see this happening more and more.

One thing cannot be outsourced though: people to people contact. There still needs to be handshakes, sales, conflict resolution, planning, etc...

Related to radio, this means local people selling the value proposition. I've written before that content is king. Recently I've been reconsidering that view. It all still applies where quality is concerned. Content rules over quality. Also rules over choice in many cases.

However conversations trump all of that. Content is the vehicle for conversations and this is where value is transferred. It takes a conversation to transfer value in most all cases. Automating this reduces the overall oppertunity to maximize ones value proposition.

No matter where the content comes from, we are still going to need people to:

-consider it's relevancy

-sell it's value for best return

-engage other people on a longer term basis.

So we may well move the jocks to far away places, but for what? Wierd sounding elements and out of touch radio? IMHO, the costs for overcoming these things can easily be balanced with more local or perhaps regional people. Just have to figure out ways to work with them smarter.

I'll bet the growing remote tech empowers regional people, paired with local interface people more than it actually does people in india.

The average listener doesn't think about, and doesn't care where the talent actually is. Proof enough is Rush, Hannity, Stern, etc...location is irrelevant for almost all formats.

What is much more important, as "Missing" mentioned is whether or not the talent is relevant and compelling to the target. The fact of the matter is there is a severe shortage of true talent these days. I'm talking about personalities who make you want to listen longer and return more often.

As a Programmer I would rather have a compelling talent on my station who happens to live elsewhere than a mediocre talent who lives down the street. The old tacics of "wacky news", "this day in history", "artist of the day" etc just don't work in today's radio environment.

Bottom line, compelling and emotionally connective talent is ten times more important than local.

yes Dex, but realize too that people who tune in to your examples ARE NOT EXPECTING to hear any local input from the people you cite. they KNOW they are not concerned with the local take. I will tell you this, given the choice in this market, many people bail from WTAM and WKBN at noon when the "local" talk ends and tune in WNIR and the LOCAL Howie Chizek rather than Rush...

Still you can't be a compelling and emotionally They are still connective local talent if the decision maker wants to go the "NATIONAL" route...........

on a final note, I am not sure there is so much...."The fact of the matter is there is a severe shortage of true talent these days. I'm talking about personalities who make you want to listen longer and return more often."

They are still around and available, but as a programmer ultimately it is you who decides if the applicant is "good enough"... the prospect has to get past THE PDs idea of talent.....

hence, with syndie and established large market VTers the decision is already made!

No matter how good I think I am, no matter how much I think the listener will approve of me, If my 3 minute demo doesn't click with you, I can prove nothing to your audience. As a programmer, YOU decide who you think your listeners will respond to, and that is indeed a tough decision.

No matter how good I think I am, no matter how much I think the listener will approve of me, If my 3 minute demo doesn't click with you, I can prove nothing to your audience. As a programmer, YOU decide who you think your listeners will respond to, and that is indeed a tough decision.


Is it really that tough of a decision? Either you have it or you don't. Its that simple. And plenty of People Don't have it and ARE WORKING IN THE PORTLAND MARKET! I can name a handful of talent, That should not be working in a market the size of portland, BUT ARE! With companies like Cheap channel wanting to cut costs and save every penny talent no longer means much to that station. They can get unskilled talent, train them and pay them peanuts to do it. Thats why I believe the talent on Z100 has gotten so bad over the years. management does not want to pay the big bucks to get someone from LA OR New York.

This is where conversations trump all.

The average listener won't care if they are not told what the differentiators are and most importantly why they matter. (What their value is)

However, if they are told, then it can easily matter. This is important. If this is not done, then the various entities compete on their content offerings alone. While cost is lower, so is overall return.

Why?

Lack of potent differentiators. Without these, strong value statements cannot be made. Without those, the listener has no real reason to bond with a station.

This is the core of radio operating as a delivery vehicle as opposed to a venue. (posted here at other times.)

Radio as a delivery system is inferior for a number of reasons. It's also open ended where feedback loops are concerned. (One way conversations --also posted here at other times)

If one thinks of a radio station as a stream that contains cool content, then the stream does all the selling. It's hard to differentiate on this alone because there are only so many tunes and viable combinations. Why do you think we see so many format flips? A new stream, for a time, sells better than an existing one. It's a race to the bottom in terms of both value delivered and value received.

(waste)

By contrast, if a station is considered a venue, then the station itself has value above and beyond the content it delivers. This value lies in the two way conversations said station has between the people that operate it and those it serves.

This can be done VT, BTW. Real time is not a requirement. Ask Chris Taylor about that. He appears to do just fine.

You wrote that the bottom line is compelling and emotionally connective talent is ten times more important than local.

I largely agree, but for the following:

-emotionally connective takes people to evoke. Machines do not do this. Must be mind to mind. Can be queued (VT) or live, does not matter, but the loop must be closed for the emotional connection to happen.

-compelling is more than just "new" as we see so damn often these days. Again, if people are involved in the process, compelling can involve cool, which only comes from people.

These things really cannot be easily outsourced. Elements of it can be, such as shows and elements produced elsewhere. But somebody needs to be at the helm for the feedback loop to be closed. It's the only way 'cool' can happen, thus it will remain here.

Missing...honestly, thank you. One of the best posts I've read on here in a long time.

Can I come work for you now?

Well since my name was brought up I'll chirp in.

My wife and I have been VTing in Coos Bay over 5 years. So we are well established. It's a smooth jazz format so you're not going to hear loads of high personality driven breaks. But we do look at content. Local, local, local and artist information make up most of our content.

We use the Good News network web site for stories about people making a positive difference. We look for locals who are doing the same.

Our “Hook” for our breaks is….look at what this person is doing to make a difference….maybe you can help or start something else. We are attempting, as best we can, to build community using music our listeners love with content they can wrap themselves around.

The truth is this audience is passive. However we did an on line survey this past summer and we were able to get a nice idea of our demos and why they listen. We were able to actually say hi to individual listeners and thank them for listening. Trying all we can to connect. Yes it helps that the station is in the NW and we do work that angle.

Having visited several times to Coos Bay we know where important landmarks are located. We do get help from those who live there with names of places and with PSAs and the like. We are vested in the market just like I was when I was live here.

Now when we do an emcee gig and people come up and say how much they enjoy our show it’s really worth all the work. As I said in another post, a woman right in the middle of our demos said “ it’s like you’re right there at my breakfast table” Best compliment any broadcaster can receive.

Dex said:
"As a Programmer I would rather have a compelling talent on my station who happens to live elsewhere than a mediocre talent who lives down the street."

Absolutely correct. If done properly, with both the PD and the talent making the effort to be relevant, local, and most of all ENTERTAINING, VTing is every bit as effective as a complacent local jock. I've been on both ends of that equation, and it works beautifully.

"Bottom line, compelling and emotionally connective talent is ten times more important than local."

Correct again. Being local is only ONE of the tools at an air personality's disposal. Good air personalities don't just rely on one aspect of their show to make it a success. All the rest (relevance, entertainment, etc.)must be in place and then being local can help you. Without the rest, "local" is just geography.

And finally - as to the shortage of talent...I don't think that's true at all. The talent pool seems shallow to most programmers because they won't wade into the "deep end" - meaning actually listening to the demos they get, including those from small markets and people you don't know by name.

This has always been a "who you know" business, but for radio to thrive, we have to get beyond that when it comes to finding the next radio stars - and yes, they ARE out there.

All this talk of good talent had me diggin' for some old airchecks I use for inspiration. Granted, I'm a much better programmer than I am a talent, SCOTTY DAVIS from KDWB certainly doesn't have that problem!

http://www.mediamax.com/mp3airchecks/Hosted/KDWB%20Minneapolis%20Scotty%20Davis% 20July%202002.mp3

This has always been a "who you know" business, but for radio to thrive, we have to get beyond that when it comes to finding the next radio stars - and yes, they ARE out there.

WE WILL NEVER FIND THEM RADIODAWGS because everything is voicetracked! And the station that are not, Will be soon. Kids these days have no starting grounds to learn the ropes and practice. Where are they gonna go? They can't go to the smaller markets because the really small markets are all on computers. With more and More of these Charlie stations coming, air talent will be done with.

That aircheck, by the way, shows the energy and "fun" that I think MOViN will need to eventually consistently deliver to survive.

Just my two cents!

Is it just me, or does that MP3 sound time-compressed? Especially the jock.

Love those N2Effect jingles, especially with the KDWB melody.

No, that's how Scotty actually sounds. I had the pleasure of working near the Twin Cities for a while and can testify to the fact that Scotty does this everyday!

Why can't stations in portland, pay some of these board OPS minimum wage and let them crack the mike and have an overnight show. Is it really going to break the bank to let them do this? I listen to portland radio at night and most of the stations go on auto pilot once the station hits midnight. WHY???
Why not let some of our future radio stars get some EXPERIENCE??? Where else are they going to get experience??

In Eugene, 7 PM is when several stations go jockless! How sad is that?

Dex said:
"As a Programmer I would rather have a compelling talent on my station who happens to live elsewhere than a mediocre talent who lives down the street."

Well how does that mediocre talent get better at his/her craft?
PRACTICE and air checking with a Kind PD who will spend some time COACHING and working with the talent to get better!!!! Most PDS don't have the time or patients to work with begining talent to help them improve.

.....How sad is that?

A frickin' shame!

No, most PDs are only interested in protecting their own job. Fewer every day have any input.

My last job, I was specifically hired for my experience, and to be a mentor an coach to the fresher faces... Part of my job was to teach them to not be so reliant on the linercards as the only element of their breaks. yes, they were there, yes they had to be done. I enjoyed helping these guys expand their abilities, but when this PD was replaced by another whose only concern was his own job, that all went away. His clock was Music, liner, weather tease, weather, liner, and nothing else. If you weren't talking about the music, or the liner, you weren't to talk of anything else...... Makes it very easy to VT or go jockless all together when the content is so restrictive. So when the station stays at the bottom of the ratings, then it is so obvious that the music is not the problem. If your music is the same as the #1 station, yet your ratings aren't close, where do you improve? Seems to me it's your presentation BETWEEN THE MUSIC that makes the difference. If the station insists on total control of what gets said and when, then you certainly can't put the blame on the airtalent for the ratings failure.

sorry, rambling. It is said, you get what you pay for, and some stations get little because of the cuts in personnel............

Chris, I think your efforts to connect and be relevant are damn cool. Closing the loop works obviously, VT or not.

Nice compliment indeed!

Bet that put a small spark in the show that would not otherwise be there too.

Conversations matter.

Mayo said: WE WILL NEVER FIND THEM RADIODAWGS because everything is voicetracked! And the station that are not, Will be soon. Kids these days have no starting grounds to learn the ropes and practice. Where are they gonna go? They can't go to the smaller markets because the really small markets are all on computers. With more and More of these Charlie stations coming, air talent will be done with.

Not true. I mentioned this several months ago in another thread, but prior to coming to PDX a couple of years ago I was a successful small market Clear Channel PD. I fought for - and was later encouraged - to keep a few weekend shifts open to groom new talent. Most are still working in the biz now and many in much larger markets. I knew many other small and medium market PDs who did (and still do) the same.

My favorite part of being a PD is coaching, and my current boss (as well as most others in the building where I now work) regularly aircheck their staff, and I assist my PD in airchecking part-timers, all of whom are live.

My boss found me in a small market...and why? 'Cause he took the time to actually DRIVE AROUND the state and LISTEN for talent. And I know he's not the only PD in the world who does this.

Everything is NOT voicetracked, and one high-profile station outsourcing some dayparts does not make it so.

KSKD-When we added my wife to mix over 3 years ago I think the morning show got exactly what it needed. My wife didn't want to come on the show and be some laughing head, she wanted to add some relevancy to the show but along the types of things that were important to her.

She loves to garden to we connected with OSU extension service in Myrtle Point to find out what types of things grow well in that area.

My wife loves to read so we added a weekly book review feature that ties in nicely with all the programs of the two local libraries.

We connected with the Coos County animal shelter and now do a weekly pets of the week.

Now to make Dexter cringe a bit:

We do a Today in History feature but we look for what "Good" happened on this day in history. Takes a little more effort and sometimes we do stretch it and sometimes the pickins be lean. Also we’ve added a "What happened on this date in Oregon history." Sometimes we need to re-write this bit other times the information just won't work on the radio. But we try as much as possible to bring in that angle.

And yes I do a quick look at celeb bdays during our commercial free music set daily. Hey I figure if it's good enough for Bob Miller....

What we stay away from is trashy Hollywood news and celebrities gone bad content. Our target demo is female 45yrs of age. So they are more than likely educated, married, moms of older kids in most cases and some have become grandmothers.

Also the music is taken seriously too. Our PD stays away from songs that lyrically offer no hope. Fourplay has a hit single with Michael McDonald singing lead on "She's Leavin." Break up songs are fine, but if it offers no hope and it's all about despair we choose not to play it. Locally owned radio can do this and get away with it.

Our PD sends us a CD with non-scooped shows so we can evaluate how our breaks are blending with the other elements. He gives us good direction. It's my favorite way to do an air check session. We don't have to sit in the same room, we just read his bullet points and make the changes.

Oh and BTW Radiodawgz you are spot on!!

The quality of a show, voicetracked or live, comes down to prep.

When I was voicetracking afternoons on Sunny 99.1 in Houston, I prided myself on spending at least an hour surfing every possible Houston website each day. I'd often get phone calls from the PD who was blown away that I had a local reference or sound bite that the live Houston jocks didn't deliver. For the 3 years I did it from the K103 studios, Sunny was #1 25-54 in afternoon drive.

The downside is that you can't blow out 8-10 stations worth of shows a day doing it that way.

The point is that the effort put out by the person on the air creates the value. The world is flat.

Tom makes a great point.

It amazed me for years, watching some jocks come into the studio with nothing prepped at all, getting by on pipes and egos, sleepwalking through a four hour shift with t&t and flip cards, and putting a fraction of the effort into their jobs as, say, your average newsperson. Just being present in a market isn't enough. It never was.

Hey Eastwood...

"...jocks come into the studio with nothing prepped at all, getting by on pipes and egos, sleepwalking through a four hour shift..."


I was married to that guy!

Chris, you know I am one of those people that likes the cliche' features! If they are well done and relevant they are just fine. Funny those were mentioned.

That's awesome about your wife. Can't ask for much more than that really. When it works, it works!

Gotta stream somewhere? I want to sample the show!

I have been pestering the PD to find someone to trade out to get the station streamed. No luck so far. I doubt the station would put up monthly costs so some trade would work best with maybe a small monthly fee. We'll see.

It'd sure be nice to hear your show, streaming online. 105.9 KYSJ provides a high quality radio product, and deserves world-wide coverage.

Radioxpert. Thanks.

Like Tom Parker said show prep is still very important and I put in at least an hour or more per broadcast. Some shows come together quickly others take more time. Also I save stuff for future shows depending on the day. It still feels very much like "live" radio I have done in the past.

I've done voicetracking for a distant market, and Tom's right - you can't pay attention at that level when you do multiple stations. I think that's what people hear that makes them nuts about some of the CC midday VT...someone is doing so many stations he can't even get the weather right.

I think broadcasters are too hung up on trying to fool people. Instead of the same VT with a few local tweaks on 15 AC stations running the same music log, just be honest. Do a network show, don't pretend it's local, and concentrate on the positives of a show that covers a wide area.

If you mispronounce an important local name when you're VT, listeners get irritated. Do the same thing on a network show, and you can get those same listeners to laugh about it.