I've seen it in the paper. I heard there were issues that caused another sale to fall thru. any details?

What's the asking price? What is it billing? How's the facility?

MARK, excellent first three questions! you've gone thru this before! Dial position sucks from a signal point, but easy to find!

Billing can't be very high. Last time I listened, admittedly quite awhile ago, there seemed to be very little local content. Station moved several years ago and site is now occupied by a Best Western Hotel. Studios are now located on the grounds of the hospital on the North end of town. Facility seemed very cluttered and quite bare bones.

As amazing as it seems that Larry Bohnsack has kept KLYC on the air all these years, it may be equally as amazing that Forrey Smith has kept KOHI on the air since the mid '80s. Lousy facilities, horribly muddy sounding audio and a format so bad that even fans of classic country might tune into hard rock.

Hopefully someone with scads of money (to lose?) can pick it up and turn it into the radio station it could be, instead of the A & W it used to stand next to.

They could make money if there is a way move the AM 1600 closed to the Portland area and raise their power to 5,000 or 10,000 watts. Also, they need to find KEED 1600, Eugene a new position on the dial.

Why would anyone in the Portland area listen to a station from St Helens?

The way to make money is to be a part of the community and sell locally.

Chances are the community might not like the same sort of thing as you do. You may have to program for someone other than yourself.

In a small fringe market they get all the PDX news and more than they want or need. Nobody in PDX cares what happens in St Helens. An old school full service approach similar to KEX in the 70's/80's would work. Heavy on local information and lifestyle features and of course high school sports.

Then you would need to hire a sales person who grew up there and knew everyone in town. or was willing to move there and get to know everyone in town.

It would still be challenging to make money but it could be done.

I agree that a very in-touch community oriented station would work well, and make a living for someone. I think the problem is that today there are very few people looking to be a "mom-and-pop" owner where one person does AM Drive, Sales, and Managing, and another does the accounting, traffic and office work. Personally my wife and I would love it.

Does anybody have the link for whatever stiry mentioned the sale of the station?

which paper did you see this listed, because I have not been able to find the listing?

On it's BEST day, KOHI's signal barely makes it into St. John's. It doesn't go very far North either. To my remembrance, KOHI has NEVER tried to market itself as anything other than a station covering St. Helens and Scappoose. A big problem they have is trying to compete in their own city of license with all the Portland signals.

You really could interchange this thread with similar ones about KLYC. They both endure the same roadblocks to success. Lousy signals, lousy audio, owners trying to succeed, but barely being able to hang on. If I had to choose between the two, I'd actually take KOHI, simply because I'd rather live there than McMinnville.

Still the big question is Is there enough business in the surrounding area to support the station? My reason for attempting to purchase KENU in the late 80s was the business community supported it, and the locals listened to it... not sure that would be the case today, coupled with the fact that at 150K it was workable... my guess is that if the same station came on the market it would be in the 350-450K range... far overvalued for what it could generate. My first step would be to survey the surrounding businesses and see their willingness to advertise and what rate would make them commit.....

Actual operating cost is easy to determine, divide that by a realistic number of units you could expect to sell in a broadcast day, and there is your rate......

At the time I had figured 96 units per day at 6 bucks per would have covered everything including staff, but that was with two co owners covering several station operations. To make it fly on my own, I was looking at 10-12 per............I had also gathered commitments from a dozen core advertisers that they would continue spending at their current levels.... Are there any stations left that could be had for 150K including property and equip? I doubt it, but given the nature of small market high dial AMs, what is their actual value away from a corporate grab and move.............................

there was a station on the coast not too long ago for sale cheap, he was running programming off the bird and barely selling anything.... not sure what happened to it, but after doing some preliminary research, his asking price of 200k was too high for what needed to be done with it..... Wish I could recall the station, but some of you might know

Roger the only single station for sale on the coast cheap, I can think of would be KORC in Waldport, which has been bought and has no local programming, which I am trying to change, ask Eugenebob what I am talking about

How exactly would you go about changing programming at KORC?

hey newportradio, you might see more success by first asking for a job rather than telling them how to run their radio station! Work for them for a while and develop a rapport and some trust. Then they might give you a chance at implementing your ideas.

just a thought.

No not telling them how to run their station just adding high school play by play at night which he said I could do, but had to pay him for air time

You had to pay HIM for air time ??????

LOL!!!

pay him for the time slot if I were to do it, and get my own sponsors

I believe that was it. Yes, I thought the addition of HS sports was a must, but again I just didn't see the revenue there to make it a viable LIVE local station.............

I looked at that too Roger and the problem I saw was a wek to non-existent signal in Newport. Having seen past sales figures, I didn't feel Waldport/Yachats had enough of a business community to support a mostly live/local station.

In any small market station you need to have enough advertisers to sponsor news, weather, community calendar and the like PLUS fill at leasy some of the open inventory PLUS sponsor HS, College and Pro sports. I just don't think there are enough businesses in Waldport to do that.

I think the guy who owns it now also runs the Waldport newspaper and probably sells it as a combo. I do remembering thinking the transmitter was nice, but needed a new building around it.

........By Newportradio on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 9:52 pm:
pay him for the time slot if I were to do it, and get my own sponsors........


Do you even know the first thing about selling radio? I mean, after all, you talked yourself OUT of a job in Newport, how are you going to talk a business INTO spending money with you? If you think it's going to be an "easy sell," then you truly and for surely know NOTHING about radio.

Here's the scene: Small coastal town, about 7-8 years ago, just off a much-needed (for community morale) boy's high school basketball state championship. You'd figure sales for next season's broadcasts would be easy, right? Nope, not in the least. In fact, they stayed the same as the previous year, which was nowhere near being sold out.

I feel pretty safe in telling you that you will not go into Waldport and sell enough air time to come close to breaking even. And, if somehow you do, what are you going to do for full-time work, for living expenses and such?

Obviously, you didn't learn a thing from your previous self-induced disaster on these boards. Here's some advice, one more time, that you've gotten here before, but have so painfully ignored:

Be quiet! DO NOT come here, tell us what you're going to do, then hem and haw about it, making excuses about why you haven't done it yet, looking foolish in the process. Just go out, give it your best effort and if you do need help/advice, contact someone OFFLIST about it.

BTW: Have you gotten permission from the high school to do their games? You can't just start selling time, then walking into the gym to broadcast a game without permission.

BTW #2: Are you talking about boy's and/or girl's basketball? According to regonlive.com, the boys are 1-2 in league, 3-5 overall, with 4 games left in the season, while the girls are 0-3 in league, 2-6 overall, with 2 games left in the season. Probably not a lot of support(if any) for this season. If you're talking baseball or fastpitch, you need to be out selling that now, that is, if the station manager even wants to interrupt his daytime schedule. If you're talking football(for 2006), no one in small town Oregon is going to commit to it this far out. Me thinkst you haven't thought this out in advance very well, have you?

Where is the KORC Transmitter and tower located at?

In a field up on a hill.

the ad for kohi is in the oregonian businesses for sale (64). the broker is aldridge and associates. Radio station, portland area, country venue, huge potential, $325,000. No info on their webpage.

I would have to think the school would want a piece of the action too. Since they actually own the event/content you wish to make a profit on.

HUGE POTENTIAL........

Hard work.... lots of luck.... community acceptance of the new owner......Deep pockets....

Can you fill the day at 5 bucks a spot? Can you sell 200 spots a day? I'm guessing they are FT

Perfect for the recent lottery winner..... Nice area though

To 50kw:

Huge potential = station currently in dumper. Only way to go is up!

Rogertoo:

At last check, unless something's changed and I simply missed it, KOHI is still a daytime only operation.

Notalent:

I'd be surprised if Waldport H.S. wanted a rights fee to cover their events. Most schools in small towns don't. Some do however. If nr's talking about the current basketball season, he's wasting his time.

KOHI is listed on the FCC site as 1 Kw day, 12 watts night.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?list=0&facid=70467

I was told earlier tonight by a friend who lives in the area, that KOHI has authority to run 'til midnight.

NOPE, NOT Workable at 350K asking unless it is a bird operation with maybe live mornings with news... Otherwise Its switch over to MOYL and sign off at dark....12 watts won't cover local FB and BB A definite challenge, but tough to produce enough revenue.... A need for an owner who can sell...( and live off of berries and wild game!)

You'd be surprised! I could get KLIQ by the Portland Airport just fine at 50 watts. 12 watts should cover St Helens.

........By Rogertoo on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 7:30 pm:
A need for an owner who can sell...( and live off of berries and wild game!)........

Roger,
That's who runs it now.

Semoochie,
Would the station, with that kind of night time power, make it and cover Scappoose?

There are too many variables with co and adjacent channel interference to give an informed answer but I doubt it. I meant to say earlier that I'm not familiar with the concept of authorization through midnight or any other specified time except in specific situations such as 1250 in Seattle and Pullman. Both stations were nondirectional at 5kw. The station in Pullman was on the air from local sunrise through 11:15pm and the Seattle station was on from 11:15pm until sunset the following day. This went on for years until the Seattle station finally put in a directional antenna for nighttime. I was under the impression that any station that had post sunset power, could be on all night at that power.

Anyone know of any news of the KOHI sale?

Still listed in the sunday oregonian...325 grand.

wonder what it currently bills?

contacted a radio broker
apparently no stations for sale in Oregon or
western Wash.

KOHI has a new BE digital capable transmitter, innovonics processor and optimod processor installed along with some other goodies that have cleared up the sound quite well. The antenna needs work and ground system. Studio is an old collins board, computer, couple of cd players and a few old cart (yes cart) machines. Talk studio unfinished but works. Production room has computer, cd, sparta mini consol, couple of mics...it works.
Price is $325k but that's negociable. Aldridge and Associates have the listing at 503-639-2340.

Don Koss has his two stations for sale I think the price is 2.8 million so KOHI is a good deal for a stand alone operator. It's just far enough north to be functional for St. Helens and Scappoose as well as across the river to Kalama and Woodland. With signal work, could cover most of Clark County, Northern Washington and Multnomah County and up to Longview-Kelso.

The present antenna site is the problem...ground radials are destroyed, coax has been broken a couple of times, transmitter building needs to be closer to antenna base etc., etc. The station was hastily moved about 10 years ago to this "temporary" situation but it became permanent.

damn, I have better equipment in my basement at home..

That antenna problem could cost a few hundred grand to remedy. future owners should be aware of that little caveat.

If the new owners could move the transmitter site elsewhere, could this significantly help the coverage? The last time I went to the St. Helens area, I noted that the signal strength on KOHI seems to decline very rapidly after you get a few hills between you and the transmitter site. It's as if much of the RF radiated by that station ends up heating up the hillsides outside of town.

Again, the ground system is at fault. That could be remedied for a few hundred dollars and a couple of weekends with some silver solder and a small backhoe. Its located in a semi-swamp so there is fair conductivity. The transmitter shed needs to be moved about 250 feet closer to the tower base. New coax and a base current meter that actually works. If you want to get really exacting, the tower is 3 feet six inches short of its correct electrical height for a perfect 1/4 wave so that would help as well.(1600kc should have a tower 153feet 6inches by my calculation) The current signal loss is about 40% give or take combine that with the current "non-ground" and "there's your sign". "A few hundred grand" is way off by about a few hundred grand unless you're planning on moving the entire site.Try about $750 for the copper radials, backhoe rental and your time. A used base meter can be had for about $75 and we already bought the new coax (I think Forrie has it rolled up in the transmitter shed). There also used to be a large coil of radial wire in there so you might not have to buy any.Biggest cost is moving the shed and installing new power. Maybe a trade deal for ads with the PUD.(You have to think creative here)New owner needs to know how to sell spots to local folks and be a part of the community....not rocket science!

Marty, why did you no go ahead on the deal? thanks for the input.

It was unfortunate but my partner couldn't come up with the closing money so the deal didn't work out. Forrie got a new transmitter out of it though and some much needed equipment so he's looking good. If the station sells now, we might get a little money back. We're also trying to put together another group to purchase it...never give up, never surrender.

Here's a question: What happens if a station goes dark? Does the license go back to the FCC to be reassigned after awhile or does the price just drop to "fire sale" levels so that SOMEBODY buys the thing? I know bankruptcy courts are sometimes involved, but let's say the owner just flips the switch and walks away without filing bankruptcy.

Having had some painful experience with operating an AM in the shadow of many signals from a larger market, I would have to discourage anyone from paying $350,000 for KOHI. Trust me, it's difficult even to sell well-produced local news and sports in a town located right next to a major market. The allure and romanticism of running one's own station will soon give way to sleepless nights wondering how the hell you're gonna pay that month's bills. The only buyer who might benefit by purchasing KOHI is the corporate owner of a station on the same frequency who wants to turn the transmitter off and upgrade the other station's power, pattern or both.

Want to start a community radio station? Spend a few grand on some used equipment, build a studio in your basement or garage, and stream the audio. Offer value-added advertising on your web site and/or in an e-mail newsletter. You'll have the same problems as the guy who spent $350,000 for an AM signal -- sales and promotion -- but you won't have so much invested that you're awash in debt and afraid to walk away while you still have some money and sanity.

Who knows? One might be able to eek out a living this way, but it'll probably have to be a one- or two-man-band operation. Be sure one of you really LOVES to sell. Get used to hearing "no" way more often than you hear "yes" -- even at $6 a spot. Maybe when audio streams make it into people's cars and pockets, you'll be the one sitting pretty. Even today, my money would be on the Internet guy rather than the guy who blew half a mill buying a fixer-upper AM.

I'm not trying to crap in anyone's Cream of Wheat here. I feel for the owner of KOHI and for small-town broadcasters everywhere, but sometimes one's love for the business causes one to take unnecessary risks. As always, take what you want and leave the rest.

"Here's a question: What happens if a station goes dark?"

Well, in the case of KQIV in Lake Oswego, these articles from 1976 may shed some light on that:

KQIV Press at the End

I think the key to KOHI is the strong community support for the station. I think the current owner is just burned out and ready to go. He's a nice guy but not into computers or walk-away automation so just spends all his time at the station. With a good local talk/oldies format and a couple of salespeople who know how to sell and build relationships, KOHI is a great deal. None of the Portland media make any effort to cover Columbia County or Clark County for that matter. Columbia County Sports alone would pay for the station. The potential is there for the right person who's not afraid of a little work.It just depends on your point of view :-)

If a station turns in its license, it goes back into the FCC's court where the application procedure may begin anew. If there's still an existing facility as in the case of KKSN in 1980, all interested parties may apply for that facility. In the case of KMJK in 1977, they knew better.

where did you find this station for sale?
no stations for sale in Oregon or western Washington through radio broker(s)
see my March 16th post

David Aldridge and Marty Rowe own the station
has anyone contacted them directly?

Who the h*** are David Aldridge and Marty Rowe and WHAT station are YOU talking about?

You must be talking to the wrong people.

Jacquel7...please don't post here
if you don't know what you are talking
about.... Forrie Smith is the station owner.
What planet are you on?

Marty
found yours and David's names on
state of Oregon business license
lists you both as owners of KOHI

spoke with Forrest this afternoon

So you spoke with Forrest this afternoon. So what?

Did he say anything, or just grunt incoherently?

Hmmmm...? Strange because we didn't buy the station, it's Forrie's. You'd better check your records Jackie...that's really all I have to
say because there was never any sale only an lma agreement which ended in December of 2004.
You're obviously looking at our company filing but the ownership never changed. And Forrie continued as the licensee even during the lma.
If you want to buy the station, call David
Aldridge, he's the broker. I'm out of the loop.
I was just trying to answer a few questions posted here if anybody cared. I was just concerned becasue your comments about stations for sale are quite wrong. Buh Bye now.

I loved the discussion Thanks for the input lowpower.......

Rarely get first hand inside input and it is refreshing. Still the price makes it a tough nut to crack without deep pockets, but places like this are what is "affordable" on the radio dial for those wishing to get out of the corporate Mcradio world.......

Marty
Secretary of State website
business registration
see for yourself

How about a link Jackie. Even if you can't do an HTML link, cut and paste the URL.

http://egov.sos.state.or.us/br/pkg_web_name_srch_inq.show_detl?p_be_rsn=1053280& p_srce=BR_INQ&p_print=FALSE

yep, both David Aldridge and Marty Rowe's names are right there.

"Authorized Representative" and "Registrant" apparently do not necessarily indicate the "Owner." Regardless of what the Oregon SOS says, according to FCC Form 303-S, Application for Renewal of Broadcast Station License: "VOLCANO BROADCASTING IS A SIMPLE 50%/50% PARTNERSHIP OF KENNETH E. KARGE AND FORREST W. SMITH UNCHANGED SINCE PURCHASING KOHI IN THE SPRING OF 1982."

KOHI License Renewal, 26 September 2005

Geez Jackie, Outsider, et al. - what does it matter who is listed as the owner? Why do you have to chase away knowledgeable people who take the time to make posts that actually pertain to the subject matter? It's people like you that are driving good folks off this board...

For everybody's sake, if you aren't going to say something somewhat productive on the matter, just don't even bother posting.

Although I believe some sort of fictitious name filing or corporate filing was made to indicate an LMA in the case of KOHI, it is entirely legal and possible for one entity to own the broadcast facilities and another to own the license. At one station I worked for, Great Empire Broadcasting Inc. was the licensee, but Mike & Mike Investment Co. owned the studios, equipment, transmitters and towers. My guess is that this was done either for tax purposes or to shield certain key assets.

thank you, Lee

Just remember, no one "Owns" a license. You are authorized to use that frequency. It's a public service, and can be pulled for just cause.

Yes it is possible. KENU sold that same way initially, Gary Holschuls (sp?) got the license, but Robert Reverman owned everthing else and leased it back to Gary for a ridiculous amount.

The owner of the building and property of KDFL wanted to put me in a similar situation, since he couldn't be on the license for previous FCC violations...... Good old "Uncle Hank", and his ministry for shut ins forced Don Shorter into bankruptcy, then tried to use his position as the biggest creditor to control the sale....Still wound up selling to someone he didn't like, and wouldn't run his Sunday religious programming, but the money got the best of him..................

Truly hope someone can jump in there and make it work, but I think it would have to be a group of local businessmen to pool their money and hire in a solid radio guy to run it....

Yeah, I should have put quotation marks around "own" with regard to an FCC license, although broadcasters today rarely get their licenses revoked the way their predecessors did. If you ever decide to lease a radio station -- especially with an option to buy -- take a good, hard look at whether there are any liens against the real property underlying the lease. If the leinholder forecloses on the transmitter site or the property becomes involved in a bankruptcy, the person who leases the station could find himself hung out to dry.

True story: Preacher needs cash. Preacher pledges radio station as collateral for loan. Preacher leases station with option to buy and doesn't mention loan. Preacher gets busted by the DEA for money laundering. Preacher's stations become part of a bankruptcy. Guy leasing station has it sold out from under him for $40,000 at a bankruptcy auction.

This didn't happen to me, but it happened to the guy who leased the station after me. I was lucky to get out of that deal cleanly (although not inexpensively) with the help of a good attorney. I sure felt sorry for the guy who got burned, but neither of us had taken that short walk to the court house to look at the deed for the transmitter site. Due diligence is vital -- especially when the guy has a fish symbol on the back of his Lexus.

By Xyar on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 1:53 pm:
Geez Jackie, Outsider, et al. - what does it matter who is listed as the owner? Why do you have to chase away knowledgeable people who take the time to make posts that actually pertain to the subject matter? It's people like you that are driving good folks off this board...

For everybody's sake, if you aren't going to say something somewhat productive on the matter, just don't even bother posting.



Jeezus, who the h*** did I scare away? People like you, who rip on others for their posts, saying they didn't add any useful information, then don't offer any themselves are....are you ready for this Xyar?

STOOPID!

I have three other posts on this thread with legitimate observations/questions, while you have one post that must have been quite hard to write with your foot shoved halfway down your face.

Now, to legitimize this post:

Where exactly is KOHI's tower site? I haven't really seriously looked for it, but don't recall ever seeing it after they moved their studios/offices onto the hospital grounds.

"Where exactly is KOHI's tower site?"

The coordinates shown by the FCC correspond to the end of Clark Street near McCormick Park.

Anything there?

I've known Forrest for about 12 years now and I really value the work he has done in the St. Helens/Scappoose community. I visited him in the beginning of February and talked for a bit about the sale of his station, but it was primarily about how things were going in general.

Forrest understands that he isn't very up on technology, but he has always operated the radio station like this. Back in 1998 I suggested that he start webcasting and I told him that I would be more than willing to help with the computer equipment and Internet connection, but after he researched the cost for his ASCAP and BMI licenses there would be no way to recoop the costs.

Lowpoweram: Shoot me an email (chris AT darkstarpro DOT com) if your seriously looking at trying to buy KOHI again. I would love to discus this with you.

Kq4: When driving north through St. Helens, you'll see railroad tracks the east. You see a sign for Kuy's (a restaurant) and the tower is just north of there, masked by some trees. The best way to physically get to the tower is to keep going north, then turn right onto Columbia Blvd, then an immeadiate right onto McNulty Way. The driveway is after the bridge, between a couple of buildings.

I would love to see KOHI become purely a local station, local content and local music. It should also webcast online to attract listeners that relocated away from the area, or to pick up the station in places like businesses or other areas during the nighttime hours.

"The best way to physically get to the tower is to keep going north, then turn right onto Columbia Blvd, then an immeadiate right onto McNulty Way."

Oops, I drove by today and it is actually right on Columbia Blvd, then a right on Milton Way, not McNulty Way. When the weather gets better, I'll take some pictures of the tower and get them posted.

--Chris

You know those tower chasers are just as crazy as those storm chasers!

Does anyone know:

Is Forrest Smith paying rent for the space his station occupies, or does he own it?

A friend of mine, who had some interest in purchasing the station, called Smith yesterday and was told that he leases the building space KOHI is in, plus the land for the tower. However, the owner of the tower site is looking to pull the lease as soon as possible. (That's the point my friend's interest ended.) So, it looks like anyone who's interested in buying KOHI better have a place picked out to move the tower to.

If true, it drops the value substantially.

You'd think so, but according to my friend, who just talked to Mr. Smith yesterday, the price for KOHI is holding firm(at the moment) at $350,000.

http://www.aldridgeandassociates.com/search.asp

Outsider: That's a pretty funny picture that they have at the bottom of the website. Unfortunately that's nothing like KOHI.... I think their last Apex died a while ago and they don't have as fancy a mixer (they have an old 1950s mixer)...

--Chris

I'm sorry to see a station like this. The owners put
their heart into this for years and it won't sell.
I hope they find someone.

I dunno. From what I've seen, it seems to be the " attached to that old car " syndrome. Ever had an old car that you had for many years- you've driven it, had great times in it, spent many hours fixing it. but then it comes time you have to sell it because you can't keep up with it any more? You don't have the heart to
" junk" it, so you decide to sell it at way more than it's actual value; not based on it's blue book price, but sentimental value? Many people come to look at the car, but won't pay what you're asking. So the car ends up in the driveway, or the front lawn, rusting away. But at least you still have the car..

This may have already been touched on, but does this station air any high school sports from Scappoose and/or St.Helens?

Is that a reel to reel in the picture?

Enough said

Pdxcoug: They used to do sports throughout the county (Scappoose/St. Helens/Clatskanie/Rainier/Vernonia), but I'm really not sure how much sports they're doing now.

My personal experiences are that local sports sell extremely well and you do as much as possible to keep the money coming in.

Given that KOHI is extremely low power, I always thought they were in a great position to start a website with a live stream of the station and have "on-demand" content available, maybe even in a Podcast style.

The radio station would probably be in much better shape if Forrie embraced technology more and automated the station. The biggest complaint I always heard was that he couldn't be out selling ads since he had to operate the station. Personally, if I was in that position, automation would sell itself because I would be able to program 2-3 hours at a shot and then go sell some ads.

--Chris

If the station did cover all those area schools I would think it would be pretty easy to sell air and make some money. Most small towns live and die with their local schools. If they can't make it to a game, next best thing is to listen on the radio.

Why does everyone think selling ad time on local high school sports is such a slam dunk?

When Tillamook High was hit with those nasty floods in 1996, the high school football team gave the community a much need shot by winning the state championship. You'd think they'd sell out those games easy the next season, right? Wrong. In fact, not even close.

KOHI does some live conent in the mornings, then runs stuff from something called Sun Networks the rest of the time. As far as sports, it's likely nothing more than St Helens, maybe Scappoose too.

Out of sheer boredom, I clicked the Aldridge and Associates link in one of my previous posts and found that the price has been dropped to $250,000 totals, $100K down and terms. I'm thinking Mr. Smith has not dropped the price low enough yet.

The Bohnsack Strategies, Inc.
company hasn't offered enough either?

Where's Bustos?

>>Where's Bustos?<<

No kidding. They've bought marginal signals in the past (overpaying Entercom for an AM in the Seattle area that can't be heard more than a mile away at night) so this should be a no-brainer.

Keep in mind fellow babies, that whoever buys KOHI will need to find a new tower site.

>Why does everyone think selling ad time on local high school sports is such a slam dunk?


it is, but getting those deadbeats to pay, well thats another story entirely.........

Can anyone (semoochie maybe?)comment on what a purchaser of KOHI would have to do to move the tower site and what potential sites might actually exist in Columbia County?

This link takes a while to load:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?allo=1&cfre=1600&list=2&dlat2=45&mlat2=51&slat2=1 5&NS=N&dlon2=122&mlon2=49&slon2=11&EW=W&size=10

An educated guess is that there is very little an existing or future licensee of 1600 in St. Helens can do through relocation except improve local reception. There are considerations in every direction. Moving slightly north, even if possible, is counterproductive. South is cochannel problems, east must contend with an APP 44kw cochannel in West Richland not to mention the cost of getting programming across the river, and west closes the gap to first adjacent in Tillamook not to mention the numerous Travelers Information Service 10 w transmitters in every direction that may be a consideration, here's just the ones in Oregon:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/genmen/uls/freq_st_res.hts?db_id=19&ro ws=999&state=OR&radio_serv=&freq=1.61

As previously mentioned, you would have to relocate somebody else. 250k for the key, find and lease new land, new tower with a good ground radial system, new transmitter and audio chain, traversing the permit process (i.e. legal fees) ... ka ching big time. And when it's all over, you still have a 1kw teapot that will not serve a great signal into the more populated areas.

...and it has to be close enough to St Helens to cover the entire city with 5mv/m! That doesn't leave a lot of room for extended coverage. Maybe, Kent will comment.

My question wasn't actually to ascertain what the effects of a tower site move would be, but rather what someone would have to do to get the tower site moved. However, with all Andy and Semoochie had to say, it appears KOHI may well be virtually unsaleable. If that is the case and the current owner (Forest Smith) reaches the point where he just can't go on any longer, what would happen then?

turn off the lights turn in the license...........

Kind of pointless to have a license and no place to put a tower.... The whole lease thing can blow up in your face, and the one reason why I dropped out of a auction of KDFL and quit dealing on KENU years back..... IF someone else controls the plant and property they have you by the balls.

Hey move your tower... Hey, I sold the building, you have to move........OOPs........there goes all your hard work

Listing at aldridge and associates remains unchanged. $250,000 total, $100,000 down and terms.

Listing at aldridge and associates remains unchanged. $250,000 total, $100,000 down and terms.

Apparently, they're really not interested in selling afterall.

Or not smart enough to be able to post a realistic price.

nope, still not viable... Not even if land was part of the deal!

Its worth only $75000.

Tis would be better for the owners to turn off the transmitter, turn off the light, turn in the license, and do a fire sale on the equipment and tower.

Looks like an "employee-owned" opportunity for those who know everything about running an AM radio station! A win-win can't-fail situation.

Get about 70 of your friends together, sell all your cars, (or a couple parents' houses) and buy a real radio station!

Clearly no one except the owner thinks it's worth $250k.

Imagine, if you will, that someone paid the $250k and gave it to you free and clear.

Have you ever sat down and penciled out what it takes to operate and maintain even a small AM station?

Back in '88 when I discovered that 105.9 would become available to file on (a year later) I sat down and did a capital budget for land, tower, transmission equipment and studio equipment. That's fun being an engineer feeling you've been turned loose in a candy store, but the more important budget is maintenance and operation (aka M&O). We'll even forget the fee to the government for licensing.

Own land? taxes
Own tower? insurance
Studio on same land? Electricity, insurance, water, garbage, etc.
Transmission chain? Electricity, maintenance
Studio? Maintenance
Programming? Fees, royalties, purchasing costs.
Lawyers? One in D.C., one locally at the minimum. If you are in a partnership, add one for you personally.
Accountant.

I'm just getting warmed up. I should run down to the basement and drag out the reams of paper we generated back then when a Class A FM could be put on the air for about $350k. 105.9 was originally a C2 and our first budget was for 1/2 million, then we updated it to a more realistic 1.1 million. Keep in mind that figure assumed leasing land and locating on an existing tower.

Promotion. Advertising is a two way street. It's how you survive, but it's also necessary to get your call letters out there. T shirts and coffee mugs. Are you going to be satisfied with merchandise that has 40 logos on it underneath a big "Safeway" logo, or are you going to pay for your own?

Wait, are you doing this all yourself?
Salaries, and the loading that comes with it.

Office help need computers. Outside printing costs.

Most of the discussion in the thread is centered on the asking price. That's not the issue. The issue is whether you can put together a plan that shows you can sell enough spots at a realistic rate to generate enough cash to pay all these frikkin bills. Otherwise ...

Otherwise... how could you get a loan for the capital improvements that this facility obviously needs? And service this debt AND pay the recurring bills?

How many spots at what price ... it's your only source of revenue.

And you've gotten the station for free, remember?

What the station is currently billing has limited value, since the tone of the posts indicates most everyone would start over.
It's possible that some of the advertisers are friends of current ownership ... they'll be gone instantly ... others may leave because they don't like your choice of programming ...

Too many of you, like myself before I made a serious attempt at ownership, spend too much time thinking it's just sitting in a little studio rolling the tunes you think the public will love.

Keep it real. Coming up with a serious plan is the only way you will get the financial backing you will need to make the station into something that can support itself (and you).

Andy,
What will be the cost for KOHI's new owner, to find a new site to move the tower to?

To refresh: A friend of mine inquired about a possible purchase, but lost all interest when informed that the owner of the land the tower stands on, will revoke the lease whenever a sale goes through.

Two components.

Without reducing power, what is the maximum distance (preferably south) you can move and still observe co channel and adjacent channel requirements?

Engineering study ... it's probably been done, you just have to find someone who has the info or commission an engineer to do it.
Probably a couple of thousand bucks, but I'm sure there are plenty of bigwig firms that would be willing to do it for more. On 105.9, I did almost all of my own engineering, without the internet, but it was FM which is way easy compared to AM and all its skywave bullshit. Even I would have to bounce my work off someone who had more AM 301 experience than me, but I digress.

Lease option on land for tower, land for studio (if separate). You would have to find a piece of suitable land where the jurisdiction in charge would let you put up a tower (DUCK! Incoming!!!) Then, assuming that no one (township, county, state, FAA) would have any objections to you radiating them, obtain a lease option so upon consummation (sp?) of the assignment of license you could close that deal. Same goes for studio space if separate. Real estate agents can help search for land, but they don't know squat about all the R&R that might prohibit construction of a tower at a location.

The upfront costs of real estate searches and construction viability would certainly cost a few thousand.

Local legal representation is another couple of grand.

I'd say 5 to 8 thousand just to line it up.

Then onward to the costs of buying a license.

DC attorney might want 10k up front minimum.

Is this enough? Want more?

This does not include the actual cost of preparing the application, both engineering and business sections. Nor the cost of buying or leasing the land (not the monthly payment or lump sum mind you, rather the costs of preparing the lease or sale agreement).

Capital costs at a new location will be mind boggling. Even with on site studio, there is so much ... it's like building a house from scratch to the nth power.

Ground radials and a tower ... small building with a bathroom (does anyone remember KVAN 1480 ... peeing off the porch into the ground field ... well, not Gloria or Iris, they would have to go to Rusty's gun club ... ugly... not to mention the hole inside the building right on the path to the can ... in the dark).

It makes the cost of a transmitter look incidental.

It's an expensive proposition.

A sound business plan would be the complete budget for research, purchase of license, lease/purchase of land for site/studio, build out, equipment, operations and maintenance ...
and don't forget the revenue forecast. That was the hardest part.

Or you could buy a turnkey solution from one of the big radio equipment manufacturers ... but you won't save any money, rather just minimize the headaches by letting someone else make a lot of choices with respect to design and equipment of the studio, and try and do business in an oversized transmitter shack.

The best bet is to look for land meeting the engineering criteria re: distance that has viable zoning, and put it on a farm with an existing house ... remember KXL when it was in a farmhouse out there where Clack Town Center is? Lots of land around the tower so blanketing won't be a problem, a remodel instead of a build up on the house (or some prefab hunk of doo) ...

Unfortunately, the ideal hunk of real estate is spendy because developers want to put 30 houses on that same piece of property.

andy, thank you, you hit the nail on the head and i hope the seller is paying attention to this FACT...............the buyer better have CASH for purchase and operation as NO lender will lend on this pipe dream

wait, i guess there is HARD money out there in the 15-25%% range and then only to 60% if you are lucky

Ideally you would want your tower near the river, where large pieces of real estate are costliest.

I bought KOHI and i'm moving the station to McMinnville!

It'll never work. To close to KOPT 1600 Eugene.

Change frequency to expanded AM.
Hire Craig, and pdxradio.com visitors to run it.
Anything we do would be better than....

Or, merge it with the Dari Delish and make some REAL money!

Andy..... WOW, did you bring back memories! am sorry that I tossed all of my paperwork on my KENU purchase attempt in the 80s.... This was for a cash purchase of 150K.... At that time the GOV fees weren't so ridiculous, the land the tower was on was part of the deal, though King County land use rules prohibited the studios from being located on the site. I had a lawyer as a partner, so the legal was free, a cash offer on the table, plus an additional 100K in the bank, and STILL no bank would touch a loan proposal, the station was making money at the time too. Not sure now, but then, the SBA wouldn't participate in loans for Media properties.

Yes, the mountain of paperwork was formidible then, moreso now, and it looks like KOHI has way too much baggage to overcome. As you say, even if it was handed over for a dollar, that station would be quite difficult to make fly........

From AllAccess, October 23:


KOHI/St. Helens, OR Sold

KENNETH E. KARGE and FORREST SMITH's VOLCANO BROADCASTING COMPANY is selling Country KOHI-A (1600 THE MOUNTAIN)/ST. HELENS, OR to MARTY ROWE and DAVID ALDRIDGE's THE MOUNTAIN BROADCASTING LLC for $195,000 ($132,000 in a loan).

Who are the buyers?

I'll take a stab at it:

Marty Rowe and David Aldridge?




(Sorry, just couldn't help myself)

David Aldridge was the broker trying to sell the station and Marty Rowe posted a few times on this thred before he got in a snit with jacquel7 and deleted his profile. Aldridge and Rowe apparently had a LMA on KOHI back in 2004.

Sounds like for $63k and legal costs the broker and partner will take it off the market so they can put it back on the market down the road a ways.

Zabasearch returns 0 hits for a Marty Rowe in Oregon.

Somehow I get the feeling that until local (Columbia County) money takes an interest in the license nothing much will change. If the lease on the land where the tower sits is really coming to an end, we may see this license go dark. It happens to small AM's. It happens to 5k AM's like KISN when they screw up, too. Hee hee.

At one point I think there was a Marty Rowe at KUIK...

Marty Rowe is one of the hosts of Tech Time Radio, heard on KUIK every Saturday morning at 8am.

He's also one of the guys behind Computer Chips Magazine (it's pretty cool, and even better, it's FREE).

Marty told me about getting the FCC paperwork filed last week and he's currently working on getting the tower site permanently secured (it will have to be moved by Spring).

He told me that he doesn't want to change the format at all (Country/Country Rock/Talk). However, they might start playing more talk radio to cut down on ASCAP/BMI licensing costs. Heck, maybe I can talk him into playing more local music that he wouldn't have to pay any licensing for at all :-)

Moving the tower site does bring up some interesting situations. If enough land can be secured to allow for a 5 tower configuration, they might be able to go directional at a higher power level daytime and nighttime, goodbye Class D!

Personally, I really appreciate that Marty plans on keeping the station local and that it wasn't sold to a group wanting to make it another religious, hispanic, or other strictly minority audience station.

So happy they had a flexible seller. Best of luck to them, and congratulations!

"Moving the tower site does bring up some interesting situations. If enough land can be secured to allow for a 5 tower configuration, they might be able to go directional at a higher power level daytime and nighttime"

The further from city of license they go, the more forward gain the main lobe will require to cover with 5mv. More forward gain can only be achieved with a sacrifice, that being deeper nulls in the direction of protection (north, south, east). 5 towers can give you the forward gain, but the southern null will go through Portland. This is the same challenge we had with the first 4 tower array for 1480 in 1977/78. The 5kw night signal sucked in Pdx as a result of the southern null to protect Redding, Ca. In fact, 3 positive towers and 1 negative tower were needed to cover the west end of Vancouver since the site was in Orchards.
More power in a directional pattern will only help them if they can push a secondary lobe towards Pdx, which would require moving south and west, putting the southern null through Beaverton instead of Pdx. It will be quite a challenge. I wish them luck, considering how expensive a multi tower array construction, tuning and proof adds up to.

yeah now it can be a white minority audience station instead of an ethnic minority station. woohoo.

OK, they can't go west because of Tillamook, south because of Eugene or north because of Seattle. Am I missing anything? It's a good thing there's nothing much on 1610! 1480 had what looked to be the perfect solution when they had a CP at Government Island. It just moved the whole pattern south a few miles. KARO could have made a good run at it.

whta's the matter with a white audience?

on another note, does KOHI carry high school sports?

i was making the point that no matter what it is still going to be a minority audience station.

How about Russian Radio...There is a sizable community in Portland. In some markets where you find AM with no idea where to go with programming you will find niche programming. Could be some Asian Radio format, Russian, Chinese, Thai, etc. In other cities I have even heard Pakistani/Hindi Radio.

Marty's been in the business a long time and knows his stuff...I'm sure he'll find a way to make this purchase a success. Congrats, Marty!

....By Pdxcoug on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 6:57 am:

on another note, does KOHI carry high school sports?....

Yes they do.

Entercom has been in business a long time but still couldn't increase KISN's power, even with a construction permit! Those NIMBYs are a tough group!

Oregon
KOHI-AM/St. Helens
PRICE: $195,000
TERMS: Asset sale for cash & note
BUYER: Mountain Broadcasting, LLC, headed by VP/GM/Managing Mmbr Martin Rowe. Phone: 503-397-1600. It owns no other stations. This represents its entry into this market.
SELLER: Volcano Broadcasting Co., headed by Partner Forrest Smith. Phone: 503-397-1600
FREQUENCY: 1600 kHz
POWER: 1kw day/12 watts night
FORMAT: Country
COMMENT: Volcano Broadcasting Co.'s KOHI-AM/St. Helens, OR to Mountain Broadcasting for $195,000. Purchase price is being allocated as follows: $40,000 for the business trade fixtures, furniture and equipment, $140,000 for the seller's license for radio broadcasting, $10,000 for the goodwill, and $5,000 for the accounts receivable. Purchase price is payable as follows: $28,000 down payment in the form of a credit from seller to buyer for previous equipment purchased by buyer for the radio station, $35,000 credit for costs to be incurred by buyer in moving the antenna/transmitter site, plus the balance of $132,000 payable over 144 monthly payments of $1357.46.

"After many months on the block, 1600 KOHI St. Helens, OR has been sold for $195k. The buyer is Mountain Broadcasting, LLC, headed by VP/GM/Managing Mmbr Martin Rowe. The 1 kW station is a throwback to an earlier era, with a vintage tube-type Collins board and cart machines still plugging away. The new owners will be moving the tower, shortly."

from:
"Water Cooled Newsletter"
December 2006
SBE Chapter 124
Portland, OR
http://www.sbe124.org

The terms are livable. Worth the risk at that price.

Anyone got an update?

Ownership should be transferred in mid January... We'll have to wait to find out what will happen until then...

12 watts at night. At 1600 I wonder if they can even be heard in Warren or Columbia City! Volcano should have offered to donate it to the school district or the local community college for one hell of a tax write off.

It looks like KOHI is getting rid of the country music and going to talk starting March 1st... The programming looks like it's mostly from TalkStar Radio and they'll be adding Seattle Mariners baseball...

http://www.am1600kohi.com/

This should be interesting. TalkStarRadio is a product of White Springs Media, headed by Portland broadcasting veteran Victor Ives. I'm looking forward to his "Radio Legends" shows. They're probably similar to his previous "Golden Age of Radio" programs.

Please tell me that's just a very early version of a web site and not what we can expect as any type of permanent web presense. Even if it's just temporary, it's pretty horrible.

I hope it does well....the station and it's "new" format.

Think they'll get a new production library and burn those Mars albums?

Any update on when the tower will be moving?

Checked out their webpage. Their coverage map may be a bit dishonest. Covers south of Beaverton and Oregon City with a 1,000 watts from St. Helens? Perhaps their local clients may believe this tall tale. Wish them the best anyway. A stand alone AM will need a sick tongued sales force to make it a viable investment.

Whoops..my typo.

Make that a "slick tongued" sales force to make it a viable investment.

Programming seems very weak..some okay shows but alot of "no names". ??

I am somewhat familiar with TalkStar Radio, as anybody with a "free-to-air" MPEG-2 Ku band satellite receiver and dish can receive the program feed.

The midday shows on Talk Star seem a bit weak.


-The daily doctor/health shows are pretty boring but it might just be that I'm a bit too young to care as much about the subject matter as I should.

-The "Big Mo Show" isn't the most listenable national sports talk program I've ever heard but I probably feel that way only because I'm used to hearing Canadian sports stations like FAN 590 and TEAM 1040 with more hockey content(yes, I'm a rare American hockey freak...)

-The X Zone isn't too bad for a late night "Art Bell" type of program. Rob McConnell (also seen at times on the TV show "Creepy Canada" on the Canadian version of OLN) seems to have a pretty decent stable of guests on his late night show.

-Vic Ives' "Radio Legends" is one of my favourites on the network. (I remember when he was in PDX. Never got to meet him.)

Conclusion: If AM 1600 doesn't have to carry all of the Talk Star lineup it might do OK.

I wish only the best for the new owners of 1600...Good Luck! You're gonna need it!

It looks like their 0.5mv/m contour. I can hear them all over town, just not very well.

"I am somewhat familiar with TalkStar Radio, as anybody with a "free-to-air" MPEG-2 Ku band satellite receiver and dish can receive the program feed."

Which bird/Transponder ?

Can a station in St Helens, running generic talk programming ( when there is a myriad of top of the line talk beaming in from P- town) make any $$$?

"Which bird/Transponder ?"

Satellite: Intelsat Americas 7 (T-7) @129.o W
Frequency: 11987
Symbol rate: 2821

HealthStar: Is on audio 2 left
TalkStar: Is on audio 2 right
TV audio: Is on audio 1 right

(From: http://www.talkstarradio.com/engineering/kuband_inst.htm)