Forced Phase-out and Obsolescence

Feedback.pdxradio.com message board: Archives: Politics & other archives - 2009: 2009: April, May, June -- 2009: Forced Phase-out and Obsolescence
Author: Alfredo_t
Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:15 pm
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We've discussed the upcoming planned obsolescence of NTSC television quite a bit here. However, I don't think anybody has mentioned the upcoming phase-out of some types of incandescent light bulbs. The light bulb phase-out is being driven by efficiency standards that will change over time. Thus, standard domestic incandescent bulbs will become unavailable, starting with 100 watt units and then gradually, lower wattages will become unavailable, as they fall below the efficiency regulations. Halogen bulbs, which are more efficient because they run the filament hotter, will remain compliant.

I have some objections that are purely ideological: there is an inherent motivation to use higher efficiency lights because they are cheaper to operate. Why not let the people who want to continue using low-efficiency lights, regardless of the reason, continue to use them and pay the penalty of a higher electric bill? Is a law really necessary? When I first saw a GE Biax compact fluorescent light at Wal Mart in 1992, I was intrigued by the potential of such a device, and I bought a pair. After I moved out of my parents' house and out of university dorm housing, I made it a point to put a compact fluorescent lamp into every socket in my home to save money--the only exceptions being lights that are seldom used (like attic and storage room lights) and lights in very humid environments. The reason was simple--I wanted to save money. I understand that there are people who would be happy to continue paying large electric bills in exchange for getting the type of light that incandescent bulbs produce or because they don't want to deal with the higher up-front investment of compact fluorescents (they could be concerned that the bulb is in a location where it is likely to be broken or damaged by moisture).

What other products might be likely to suffer a similar fate? Could there be a government-mandated phase-out of gasoline engines in passenger vehicles someday, with the government providing some subsidy for the conversion of existing gasoline vehicles to natural gas?

Author: Skeptical
Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:56 pm
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However, I don't think anybody has mentioned the upcoming phase-out of some types of incandescent light bulbs.

We're not ready yet. Flourescent bulbs have an "non-instant on" problem and can't be used in many applications. Among other things, they also don't work too well in low volt applications. Both of these issues can be overcome with LED bulbs or fixtures, but the prices on LEDs aren't in the affordable range yet.

Author: Randy_in_eugene
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 1:07 am
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If you have to hold the refrigerator door open for at least a minute before a "25-watt equivalent" light is bright enough to see by, I don't see where the energy efficiency and savings are. :-)

Then there is the dirty little issue of disposal and mercury content.

I still refuse to use compact fluorescents in my dining room because none of the ones I've tried render colors as well as incandescents. Red tomatoes look dull orange.

As far as I know, they still haven't come up with a true white LED. The bluish white ones really trash colors.

Author: Skeptical
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 1:37 am
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Red tomatoes look dull orange.

Many a produce grocer knows that -- its the light, not the produce, that sells the the stuff!

Author: Motozak2
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 6:06 pm
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"However, I don't think anybody has mentioned the upcoming phase-out of some types of incandescent light bulbs. The light bulb phase-out is being driven by efficiency standards that will change over time."

Lemmee shine some more light on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs#United_States

I hate compact fluorescent bulbs. They do strange things to the colour of objects and they help contribute to noise pollution on the medium-wave band (and to a lesser, yet still significant degree, short-wave.)

I live in an apartment and it's hard enough to DX a Navtex tower as it is, with all the computer and TV noise emanating from my flat as well as the neighbours'! Last thing I need is a light bulb adding to it.....

Author: Jr_tech
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 6:13 pm
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"they help contribute to noise pollution on the medium-wave band"

yep! looks like candles are in the future for the old radio room! :-(

Author: Talpdx
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 6:47 pm
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This story was recently in The New York Times. It deals with the subject (at least in part):

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/business/energy-environment/28bulbs.html?_r=2& hp

Author: Newflyer
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 8:25 pm
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As I understand, the idea behind laws, mandates, and government intervention says that people are stupid and won't change unless they're forced to. Another popular example: minimum wage and child labor laws.

Author: Vitalogy
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 10:29 am
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A while back, I replaced a bunch of traditional light bulbs with the compact flourescents. I think it was about 15 or so. 4 of them are outside lights that are on full time dusk to dawn. 3 of them are in a chandelier in our entry way that's often on for hours at a time when dark. 2 of them are in lamps in our living room that are on full time when it's dark and we are still awake. 1 of them is on my garage door opener. 4 of them are in lamps in two of our bedrooms, although we don't use the lamps that much. And I have another one that we use in the shower, which is a flood light type light.

I monitored our electric bill for the next year to see what the year over year difference was in electricity usage to see a before and after comparision. We averaged about a 15% decrease in usage, which I was happy about. I have also not needed to change one bulb since then, and it's been probably two years now since the switchout.

I will concede that the main problem with the lights is the instant on, but for the lights we have switched, instant on is not an issue as they get turned on and stay on, and to be honest, they are pretty bright right off the bat. And, all of the bulbs are hidden behind lampshades or frosted glass, so the light looks the same and the light quality is comparable to what we had before. There are certain places these lights make no sense, like a bathroom or anywhere where they are visible, but overall, I'm happy with the switchout.

Author: Jr_tech
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 10:53 am
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"I have also not needed to change one bulb since then, and it's been probably two years now since the switchout."

I just replaced one that had been in use about 12 h/day since 4/18/01. I usually mark the install date on the base with a felt-tip pin, and have returned several that have failed early! Keep those receipts!

Author: Alfredo_t
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 1:15 pm
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Many of the bulbs that I put in when I moved into my house in September of 2001 are still in service. I am especially impressed that I have not had to change the bulb in the bathroom, as this one is turned on daily. I wish that I had thought to mark the installation date on the bulb, as Jr_tech suggested.

My experience with the reliability of these bulbs has been variable, as has been my experience with RFI issues. I ran across some budget bulbs that came in a cardboard four-pack labeled "ESB Energy Saving Bulb" that had reliability problems. The issue was not with the electronics or the tube; rather, it was that the base had a press-fitted contact that is prone to becoming intermittent. The amount of RFI emitted is, of course, dependent on the design of the light, but it also depends on the house wiring. If the hot and neutral wires run side-by-side all the way to the breaker box, the noise largely cancels out. If not, then you will have little loop antennas that will radiate any hash that the bulbs put on the AC lines.

The circuit boards from the few dead bulbs that I have had have made their way to my junk box for the high voltage parts that are in these things--typically two transistors, several capacitors, and some chokes/transformers.

Author: Alfredo_t
Monday, April 13, 2009 - 12:47 pm
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When I opened my electric bill yesterday, I ran across something interesting that relates to this topic: The Energy Trust of Oregon is Hell-bent on getting old refrigerators off the market. They are offering $30 in exchange for working refrigerators and freezers that are more than ten years of age (I don't have the flyer with me at the office, so I might be slightly off on the specifics). I wonder, where did the money for these $30 incentives come from?

Author: Skeptical
Monday, April 13, 2009 - 3:43 pm
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Money set aside for building a second coal fired generating plant in Oregon?

Author: 62kgw
Monday, April 13, 2009 - 8:06 pm
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phase-out the HD Radio!!!

Author: Trixter
Monday, April 13, 2009 - 8:09 pm
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Keep the meth away from 62!!

Author: Alfredo_t
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 10:07 am
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Let's phase-out repetitive posts.

Author: Skeptical
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 5:11 pm
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Speaking of obsolscence, there are three folks here that could benefit from a lobotomy.

Author: Alfredo_t
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 5:26 pm
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Three folks could benefit from lobotomies? Did I happen to make it onto that prestigious list?

Author: 62kgw
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 6:20 pm
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Phase out the radio Executives, Managers, and Engineers (local and corp. H.Q.) who ignore repeated requests for technical and/or programming improvments from observant listeners which drives the need for some of them to often repeat some suggestions on the pdxradio message board!!Pretend that the suggestion is from a major investor?!

Author: Skeptical
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 9:14 pm
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Did I happen to make it onto that prestigious list?

Nope, you've got waaaayyyy too much common sense to be eligible. Sorry.

:-)

Author: Alfredo_t
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 9:43 pm
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OK, I think I know who this trio of lobotomy candidates might be...Mwwahhh Hah Hah Hah!! :-)


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