North Korea is about to launch a rocket both we and the Japanese take exception to. We have dispatched too warships to the area capable of shooting down the rocket. NK says it would be an act of war if it happens and they will respond. Response from NK could only be pouring over the border into South Korea. They have nothing else to threaten with.

If they do, they will overrun US forces stationed there and pour into South Korea. It will be 1950 all over again.

If they do, what should we do next? Bomb them back to the stone age, nuke them, send them a white bunny rabbit as a gift and tell them we just want to be friends?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/5053883/US-deploys-war ships-as-North-Korea-prepares-to-launch-missile.html

I say drop a nuclear bomb on them right now. Today. There is no more reason to wait. No more reason to talk. All any of those things have done is create this situation where we still haven't had to go to war and kill millions of people. Fuck that. I'm tired of this not-being-able-to-kill-anyone-in-a-while mentality. It's utter bullshit. We've got to launch a nuclear weapon at them. Preferably before lunch please.

It is, by far, the best solution. Anything short of that is waving the white flag of surrender and I'm out of Viagra.

Sadly, talking with these people has accomplished nothing. The Clinton Administration tried talking and got made fools of, the Bush Administration tried it with complete failure, now Obama has a choice. Talk, fail and look silly, or get tough.

What I don't know is, how do you get tough with these people. I long thought we should get the Chinese to handle the problem, but they seem impudent as well when it comes to NK.

North Korea is already in the dark ages. They are a paper tiger if you ask me. If they launch the rocket, shoot it down and see what happens. If they invade South Korea, then they are over with.

Post Deleted.

Notice how Deane's post really has little substance to it? Of course, if there is such a plan it certainly isn't going to be broadcast. Not to mention all the work that's been accomplished in two months after 8 years of no accomplishments.

When are you guys going to learn that Deane is only here to get your goat? The day I see his posts go unanswered and quickly sink in the list is the day I know everyone has realized he isn't here for discussion on level terms. He's truly a troll in every sense of the word. Worse, he's become a parrot of the right wing news agencies. Obama's administration is still in the first inning and the right is calling for a pitching change, a coaching change, and team relocation. Long ago I realized how uninformative and droll Deane's posts are. My mission now is to get everyone to ignore them altogether. Interestingly enough, to date, it's not the more conservative amongst us that constantly reply to his inanity. If that was the case, the posts would become a conversation between maybe 3 posters. Someone tell me why you still pay attention to his crap?

"Notice how Deane's post really has little substance to it?"

Notice how you post the same pile of shit in multiple threads.

Says the user who basically posts the same piles of shit in multiple threads..............

Deane, it's funny to me how you go on about the amount of money Obama is spending to stimulate the economy. However, when it's about spending to go to war, you seem to be leading the charge, or maybe it's just me. What do you think?

I didn't propose going to war, did I? I asked what people think we should do if they pour into South Korea and overrun our troops.

Whenever I post, liberals leap to conclusions based on their own preconceived guesses as to what I might be thinking.

" I didn't propose going to war, did I? "

Yes. You did.

Under what circumstances could you use a nuclear weapon against another country if not in some form of a war? The title of the thread certainly lends itself to ideas of war. It's a reasonable reaction Deane. Do you not agree with that? And if that doesn't fit your definition of war, then what would be your classification of " Nuke North Korea " fall under? A warning? A threat? What?

" Don't make us nuke you, because if we nuke you, we're going to take it to the next level and invade you too! THEN you'll REALLY be sorry! "

?

Again, not asking that rhetorically.

possibly better if Japan nukes em!!???does SK have any??

Whenever I post, liberals leap to conclusions based on their own preconceived guesses as to what I might be thinking.


If you haven't noticed the libs really don't care what you've been thinking....

I mean no disrespect, but I thought the language of the original post was written to be provocative, and I don't consider myself a liberal.

> Bomb them back to the stone age, nuke them, send them a white bunny rabbit
> as a gift and tell them we just want to be friends?

Three options were listed there:
1) Drop bombs
2) Drop bombs
3) A description of appeasement that is meant to lampoon the idea

Why did you ask the question in that leading manner? Why not just ask, "do you think that North Korea will make good on its threat to respond to the shooting down of its rocket, and if they do, how do you think the scenario will play out?" I think that leaving questions open-ended like that makes for better discussion.

Pie?

Cake?

Death?

Why did you ask the question in that leading manner?

I often wonder that in polls and surveys that come in from one party or another.

on the missles issue... hell let them launch all the test rockets they want. They can't feed their people, but missles are the priority right now. Just let them know that they are welcome to do what they feel they must to feel secure. Not just our words, but the world. With that, tell them that the tests are fine, but launch one loaded, and N.K. becomes a parking lot with a giant WALMART right in the middle of what used to be a country.

This might be one place, and one time, to call their bluff. North Korea has NOTHING to gain and everything to lose here ...

some things to keep in mind:

-North and South Korea are officially still at war. It was an armistice signed by both sides in 1953 to cease hostilities, but officially they are still at war.

-North Korea doesn't have the support of ANYONE in the region. In 1950, they had the backing of Stalin and Mao. I seriously don't think Putin is crazy enough to get involved with the North Korean government, and China certainly doesn't want to piss us off. They won't have the Chinese Red Army pushing us down the Korean peninsula like they did in the early 50s, and we won't have a deranged Gen. MacArthur completely disobeying the White House and UN demands, escalating it to the point where China DOES get involved.

-North Korea is one of the last bastions of a true totalitarian dictatorship left on Earth. Roger is right, they can't feed their own people, to the point where they are taking staples in from Russia, South Korea, even Japan ... the people have to be fed up with being quashed, and I would venture that there would be one hell of an uprising against the government.

where they are taking staples in from Russia, South Korea, even Japan ...

We are providing food as well On a side note NK buys quite a bit with counterfeit U.S. Currency that they produce

Is there any degree of serious panic amongst the South Korean populous on a possible missile launch by North Korea? You would think that if North Korea is attempting to provoke a war with anyone in the region, the South Korean populous would be on a war footing. Japan seems more concerned than South Korea.

Probably because the Japanese have nuclear capabilities (ok, ours)

David Letterman:

Kim Jong Il and his brother Menta Lee Il.

It's the perfect storm. Does anyone disagree with the folllowing score card?

NK lands a missile on US soil. Obama loses. Failure.

NK launches their rocket. Nothing happens after that. No further action. Obama wins.

NK launches a rocket. US shoots it down mid-air. US 1. NK 0. Obama wins.

NK does not launch a rocket. Obama wins. NK loses.

Name any other scenario with credit or blame.

NK launches rocket, explodes on launch pad. World wins. NK loses.

KN launches rocket, veers out of control, lands on presidental palance and explodes. Kim Jong Il loses, NK wins.

Of course we should Nuke North Korea, just think of the millions of people it would kill/maim and the new enemies we would have. [/sarcasm] A NEO-CON wet dream.

Skybill wrote: "David Letterman: Kim Jong Il and his brother Menta Lee Il."

Very, very funny.

"North Korea conducted a nuclear test and the blast was so small that many scientists are saying it was a dud. Apparently, the nuclear bomb didn't work well because it was made in Korea." --Conan O'Brien

"The Globe reports that North Korean dictator Kim Jong-Il raises money by selling fake Viagra pills. What it is about this guy? None of his missiles seem to launch." --Jay Leno

North Korea is actually more afraid of Japan , as is China to a lesser degree . The US is way out of N.Korea's league and they know it well. But Kim has his "hard on for Japan". Japan is the local powerbroker for South Korea and other Western influences. Japan has a lot of investments in South Korea along with the US, but Japan has more. South Korea in turn has much invested in or through Japanase corporations .

This is the rub and always has been. Kim is a crazy paranoid idiot and has subjegated his people in an ancient Maoist paradigm that cant really continue succesfully. But , because of the regional influence of China and its influence with Kim, any missle tossing or not will be dictated by China. China sees the continuing threat of War useful in the world on regional political tensions there. China views this as a counterbalance to " Business as Usual "...which it normally 'is'..China views N.Korea as a useful tool as a reminder to its people and the other peoples in the region ...that..." THIS MISERY COULD BE ...YOU...SO DONT STRAY TO FAR AWAY FROM THE DICTATES OF MOTHER CHINA " ...We are the power over here !

China lets this maniac go just so far, but it wont let him go that far, unless things get way worse than they are now, and China believes the way to their salvation is some kind of Nuclear War , regionally or otherwise. North Korea is the " bad cop " in all this and serves at the pleasure of " Mother China ".

This is a "Balance of Terror" held in place by China.

Kennewick, China is evolving. Yes it is still a "Communist" regime, that gives its citizens next to no civil liberties, with an atrocious human rights record. That said, the Chinese are bankrolling the US budget deficit, and they are fast becoming the second superpower that the Soviet Union once was.

Kim Jong-Il has taken North Korea into the stone ages as far as isolation. Including from China. Given the diplomatic and economic ties between Red China and the United States, and the reprecussions from the West as far as trade, I can't see China coming to the rescue of Kim if the shit hit the fan. It kind of reminds me of the perceived relationship between Seattle and Portland - Portland looks at its northern neighbor with a lot of disdain, with a Napoleon syndrome ... and Seattle couldn't care less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkRNIxH0k-8
(No, this is *NOT* yet another copy of "Never Gonna Give You Up"......)

Directed by Charles Manson!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/04/north.korea.rocket/index.html

Done.

It did not explode on the pad or misfire. Not a good outcome for the West.

Nor did lord Obama have the balls to carry through on the US's threat to shoot it down.

N. Korea - 1

Rest of the world - 0

C'mon, do we really need another BRING EM ON president?

Besides, you don't know what Obama is going to do about this defiance do you? After 8 years of huffing and puffing from Bush the status quo on NK remained exactly the same.

Lets give Obama a bit of time, eh? If I were him, I'd do something quietly and we'll read about it in Obama's memoirs in 2019.

HEADLINE NEWS.............

NORTH KOREA LAUNCHES WORLDS FIRST INVISIBLE UNDETECTABLE SATTELITE...........

NK, the worlds "problem Child".... either ignore them or spank their bottom, but stop the "TIME OUT" crap.

" Nor did lord Obama have the balls to carry through on the US's threat to shoot it down."

Was that the plan? To shoot it down no matter what? It seems like that would have been a mistake given the outcome.

"No object entered orbit and no debris fell on Japan," the statement added. "NORAD and [the Northern Command] assesses the launch vehicle as not a threat to North America or Hawaii and took no action in response to this launch."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/05/north.korea.rocket/index.html

C'mon, do we really need another BRING EM ON president?

You're right, we don't.

However the statement was made a few weeks back "If they launch we will shoot it down".

They did, we didn't. N. Korea wins. And the US starts down the path to woosiedom©.

" However the statement was made a few weeks back "If they launch we will shoot it down". "

That reads pretty clear. I'll assume you are not paraphrasing since you put it in quotes.

Who said that? Japan did, I know. But I hadn't read " we " as meaning " The United States."

The US made no statement about shooting it down EVER!
I wonder if we're going to invade N. Korea now? Do they have oil?
They (N. Korea) has been working on this missile for how long??? I thought DUHbya and Co. had N. Korea on the axis of EVIL list? I wonder how this missile was constructed during DUHbya's reign of terror? Another DUHbya and Co. gaffe!

It's Obama's fault, don't you know? Just ask Deane, he'll give you the scoop.

CJ, I remember reading that somewhere on a "news" website.

Maybe I confused it and it was Japan, I thought it said the US.

"They did, we didn't" (shoot it down).

Can we be 100% sure of that? They say they launched a communication Satellite, we say it crashed into the ocean...perhaps it crashed in a zillion pieces?
Who really knows what the truth is?

Too bad Paul Harvey can't give us "the rest of the story!

Not to put too fine of a point on it, but have we really " progressed " to the point where people who are eager to show us that Obama will fail or " say one thing, but do another ", and to support that claim, those people will point to a lack of shooting this rocket down?

Strangled syntax aside...ahem...I have two observations about that;

#1. There are some people who I suspect are actually disappointed that we didn't shoot it down. Even though, as it turns out, we didn't need to at all.

#2. If The United States would have shot it down, even though we now know we didn't need to, somehow Obama's credibility would have been improved in the eyes of those people calling to " Nuke North Korea."

Either way, and fully acknowledging our many differences, you can at least see why others are not so gung-ho on pulling a trigger that would have likely caused a massive incident, to say the least.

I'm not saying that there are not circumstances in which it would have been warranted to shoot it down. But even though this has been proven not to be one of those times, this is already being cited as " Obama has no balls."

That's very hard for me to relate to in this case.

Can you at least see how that feels like an extreme position in this case?

NK didn't win anything. Their country is in shambles. The can barely keep the lights on at night.

I'm not sure those "Nuke North Korea" types are worth working to get credence with!

I would suspect that if there was ever any sort of mass collapse of the North Korean regime, we’d probably witness that largest mass suicide of any single population in history.

Ack. I hadn't thought about it that way. Do you think that would happen beause they are so brainwashed and would just give up? Or that it would be more " called upon by the great leader - drink this! " kind of thing?

I can recall reading about a woman in North Korea whose home was demolished by an explosion caused by a train derailment. She made every effort to return to her ruinous home not to save her family, but rather to retrieve a picture of North Korea's leader.

A couple of years ago, I watched a documentary about a family living in a high-rise apartment in Pyongyang. This family endured propaganda being piped into their apartment via a speaker system on a 24 hour/7 day a week basis. It could not be turned off. It was really astonishing.

It’s sort of like Jim Jones and Jonestown. He was on a megaphone or sound system speaking apocalyptic gibberish day and night. Also made me think of "The Wave" -- that ABC Afterschool Special about cults.

The population is so dependent on their twisted relationship with the “dear leader” that I’m sure they’d do nearly anything for him (and the regime).

Very interesting.

When I was young ( fresh out of High School young - and a very new Christian ) I thought I felt a calling to be a cult deprogrammer. I myself had been, uh, let's say " heavilly influenced."

One of the things I thank God for is that I grew up and got my head right about stuff like that. I'm certain the work deprogrammers do can be very important. That's not for me anymore though.

Good gravy. Do you guys ever notice that Deane throws something in the water, then walks away, laughing? Trace the posters on this thread. No Deane, after the first few.

Andy is right. Ignore him! You are being duped.

Yeah, but then we get this brief exchange about the family enduring propaganda!

I had no idea... It would be absolutely facinating to interview these leaders on a level where it's possible to get some insight as to how their theory of mind works.

Deprogramming people has got to be on the top 5 really shitty and intense jobs there is to do. When identity, and more importantly one's perception of worth becomes expressed in terms of ideology, and reinforced over time, the end result can be very, very ugly.

Anyone see the Stephen King movie "The Cell", or read the book?

There is one scene where a young woman hears part of the signal. She has intellect, some skills, but lost who she is! Goes absolutely nuts!

That, deep down is the threat that lies in waiting for the deprogrammer. They've got to balance that, while slowly building out the tools for a real self to emerge and be viable.

Once the tools are there, then there still remains a journey as the person quite likely doesn't know who they really are, having suppressed it in this way.

Touchy stuff!

" Do you guys ever notice that Deane throws something in the water, then walks away, laughing? "

Sometimes I notice that. Sometimes it bugs me. Sometimes it doesn't.

Besides, if that is his motivation - to feel like Oz or something - then so be it. Having tricked me into responding can't feel THAT great. If he doesn't really care about what I think, when asked so clearly, then, well, he's got that going for him, I guess. Neat.

Maybe, instead of ignoring it, we should just instantly hijack the thread to something else immediately.

Deane, when you post, do you just walk away laughing at us or me? You can just tell me. Do you do that on purpose? Or does it just not go your way for long enough before you bail?

I think he's working on coming out of the closet!

Way down deep, Deane is a progressive, just testing the waters.

Come on in Deane! The water is fine man! Progressive is non-partisan really.