With Eric Holder announcing they may just turn some of the Gitmo enemy combatants loose in the U.S., it's time for those of you who wanted them loose so badly to step up and offer them sanctuary.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123741378746277081.html

Deane, I think you should take some of them into your home. After all, you supported President Bush and his policies of keeping prisoners without charge at Gitmo for years - and if there is no evidence that they committed any crime yet they will be killed if returned to their home countries, where else should they go but to the homes of Bush supporters? Put your money where your mouth is and take a few of them in.

I'm quite happy with leaving them in Gitmo for the rest of their natural lives. They were doing just fine there. Why would I want them in my home. They aren't my buddies, I'm not a liberal, remember.

Typical Republican: don't want to take responsibility for the problem your own party created and you supported. Remember, the problem is that some of the people still at Gitmo are innocent - as in, picked up by the US, turned out not to be guilty of anything, can't be released back to their home country or they'll be killed. And no other country wants them. Despite your delusions, no one is talking about releasing the actual terrorists at Gitmo into the US.

Innocent of what?

Same thing you are presumably innocent of, Deane.

Then let's give them a rubber raft and a compass and let them go where they want to.

Bush started releasing some of the Gitmo prisoners to their countries of origin months ago. This is REALLY old news.

>>Bush started releasing some of the Gitmo prisoners
and some are back blowing things/people up again...what gives...allah...?

I don't want them released, I want them charged and convicted. If we can't do that, then what else can we do other than release them?

Exactly!!

And we harmed ourselves by not following through on basic due process. Our own founding documents clearly state that no person shall be denied the full protection of the law.

This "enemy combatant" crap was an attempt to get around "no person", and now we suffer the legal consequences.

Back when they started this crap, tons of us brought this point to light. We were told to shove it basically, this is a war on terror! Anything goes!

Well, now here we are. Screwed on how to properly litigate this.

Our current President is an attorney. He knows full well the implications of what has happened. It's just too bad other decision makers didn't.

broadway sez: >>Bush started releasing some of the Gitmo prisoners
and some are back blowing things/people up again...what gives...allah...?

I believe it was you that claimed they KILLED American soldiers, so did they?

Yeah, never did see any proof of that...

However, according to a Bush administration official, there are many still sitting in Gitmo that are innocent:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090319/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_guantanamo_wrongly_held

I have wanted them to be tried in the kinds of courts that we enjoy. If convicted, then they can sit it out and pay.

If not, they can stay with me if they want to.

There.

Next.

"there are many still sitting in Gitmo that are innocent"

Don't you know there's no such thing as an innocent mooslim?

I'm not going around the religion mulberry bush with you again, Broadway, but I'll remind you AGAIN that when you mock the name of Allah, you mock your own God, and that of the Hebrews, in the same breath.

Have some respect.

I will happily volunteer to act as a "host family" SERIOUS! These people largely are envious of what excess we do have or are percieved to have. Besides these people probally can and will be reabihilitated. For many its a phase in there life. Just my opinion and I am sure to get some good comments on this one.

"these people probably can and will be rehabilitated"

And an alien will probably step off a UFO and bring us trillions of dollars to solve the economic crisis too.

Deane, I don't know how serious you were when you thought you were calling my bluff, but the more I think about it, I really like your idea.

Something tells me that I would not be allowed to do it. But I would give it some serious thought. Sure, there are downsides; Media calling me CJ The DJ, right wing nuts leaving their compound in Kentucky to caravan here to Salem to protest ( but really, that's just a parking issue that I think I can solve ), etc. . But I bet I would get some strong support too. If they are devout, then I won't have to share my beer. Heck, I would even let them have a talk show on my domain of www.barackobama.fm . It would be great.

The only thing I would ask in return is that I get to cut in line when I take them to Disneyland. Because that won't cause an international incident or anything.

CJ, the only problem with that is that they cut people's heads off with whom they don't agree.

We would have to post "CJ has lost his mind....really"

>>when you mock the name of Allah, you mock your own God
not mocking, just saying I believe allah is not the true and living creator God as revealed in His Word the Bible and His Son Jesus Christ.

Well that's different then.

broadway sez: just saying I believe allah is not the true and living creator God as revealed in His Word the Bible and His Son Jesus Christ.

Well, that does it. Broadway singlehandly used up all three of those "passes" I was going to give on all things religion.

Let me say this to you broadway: You are a M-fing selfish jerk who deserves to spend the rest of his life in Hell for all the misery you're bringing to the humans on this planet.

I know I speak on behalf of all the Gods when I say get lost you selfish lying a-hole! Now!

Why would I want them in my home. They aren't my buddies.

With YOUR fascists thinking I can't believe that you wouldn't...
WOW!

I see. Since Broadway doesn't believe what you believe and he speaks his mind on what he does believe, that makes him a "M-fing selfish jerk who deserves to spend the rest of his life in Hell"

So much for the liberals preaching tolerance.

It's only tolerance if it fits THEIR way of thinking.

Kind of like YOU thought when YOUR God was in the White House... When YOU were in control until 2006 YOU thought the same way!
GET USE TO IT!
YOU guys had NO tolerence....

Well, I wasn't predictating my offer on them being my buddy. I bet I could find some common ground though.

Soccer is coming - maybe I can learn something about that. Or, I like to cook. Maybe I'll get a new recipe that I like.

At the very least, it has a chance as being viewed as one American looking for a way to serve his country. Either that or I could get Billo's head to explode. And really, what's more American than that?

One of the things I like about soccer is the interplay between the players. A good team needs a good coach, but also solid players, who can act as strong individuals when required, and also coordinate when required. Too many egos is a travesty of the game. Unless of course, every last player has a big ego, then it's balanced!

It's a communication sport, and the real time requirements also demand the players know one another well. Things are fluid, positions not always set, and what people do in combination significantly impacts what the best game play actually is, or could be.

Unlike many games, the strategy is distributed in real time among the players. That's where the beauty of the sport is frankly. --that and the athletic skill seen when executing the game. That's true for all sports.

Football and Baseball have a fairly rigid play mechanic, and a strong central decision maker. Basketball is a lot like soccer, but more goal oriented instead of play oriented. I really like Basketball too, BTW. I like both sports because it's possible to see what kind of thinkers the players are --all of them, not just a few key ones.

Anyway, the fun of a soccer match isn't seeing a lot of goals, though that happens often enough. It's watching the players compete, form their strategy, execute with high skill and prevail. That's a game well played, and maybe that means a score of 1 - 0. Fine. That just means two very good teams, well balanced, went to the limit to try and take the match.

It's about endurance, smart use of human resources and strings of good decisions and execution. Another interesting element is highlighted in penalty kicks, which happen to be a perfect human example of game theory!

Right now, the Timbers offer a great experience. The venue is small, it's possible to get seats near or on the pitch if you are early, and the action is solid. Hope they don't break that. It's fun like it is.

It helps a lot to have played the game, if you are going to watch the game. I think this is probably the biggest problem with the sport as a spectator event. If you've not played, it's tough to see where the elements of the game are, and most people see it like they do golf...

...and I hated watching golf, until I ended up playing a season or two. Now I can get into a game and see the elements and enjoy the sport! I think this is true of a lot of sports as well.

Give it a chance! If it leads to improvements in Baseball like I've been hearing, it's a win-win!

And this is a great soccer town. Lots of talent here, many clubs, and most who participate in the sport are just great people.

he speaks his mind on what he does believe

Hitler, Pol Pot, John Wayne Gacy and Bernie Madoff had opinions too. If lying Broadway comes here and unloads poop, I'll throw it back in his face.

Claiming one person's God is better than another is about as low in the selfishness bucket one can go. The planet has enough problems without letting the broadway types go around unchallenged.

CJ, I assume you've watched Iron Chef!

If not, do it. Competitive food preparation is great TV. The Asian version is the best actually. Lots of exotic ingredients, and very interesting techniques.

My wife is a great cook, and while she has been sick, I did a lot more cooking. It's great fun. Never thought it would be.

The key for me was finding those shows that detail technically why the food works the way it does. If you can grok that, that opens the door for creative food adventures.

What's in the fridge?

Great! Let's go with that and push the boundaries.

I've reached the point where I can compose stuff now. I've got to be careful though. Lots of stuff to know yet. My wife is just brilliant. I'm not even in the same class yet, but getting there!

Frankly, good food and good music have a lot in common. There is a theme, story and time-line leading to a conclusion. It's really more than just selecting good ingredients. It's the whole path from stock to plate and wine, if you are into that. Once in a while, I will sit at a piano and compose, play with a theme, or just maybe explore elements. When doing this with food, I get the same feelings and the gratification is the same as well, plus there are left overs!

Cheap, fun and quality time with your spouse. Can't beat it, and I never, ever thought I would say that.

I like the "Good Eats" show a lot. The host is goofy as hell, but the technical information is well presented, useful and shown in several contexts. A rank amateur can try what they see, and he's got stuff for the pro too.

I think it's poor form to dis others religion. The tendency to do just that is why we have wars, killing, discrimination, anger and all sorts of other ugly things.

Yes, I've written plenty of sarcasm here, aimed directly at believers. Go back and look though. Repeatedly, I've asserted that faith is important, we all must choose it, (and not choosing is a choice too) and it fills a need many, many people have.

What I believe Skep is getting at is the "my god is the right god" bit. That's bull shit, and the reason for my negative posts.

What anyone means when they say that is simply that they believe they have found the true god, or that their faith is working for them.

Because religion is not a physical thing, asserting ones faith does not take anything away from another's faith, unless said assertion devalues it.

And that's the poor form!

I've reached that point in life (finally) where I'm no longer threatened by any of it. Met a Hindu a while back and talked Karma. I must say that was one of the most interesting conversations I've had in a good long time!

This is where it is at! When we talk about "liberal tolerance" taking the time to know one another and maybe learn, maybe grow, maybe just make friends is the reward for working to develop the strength of character it takes to exhibit said tolerance.

Skep may be a bit rough about it, but he's not off the mark. And it's tough to just deal with the false assertions.

When the focus of the statement is "I believe", then it's quite simply not a known, established truth. Think it over. See?

Given that, some measure of humility (and that's what they taught me in Sunday School) and tolerance (and they taught me that too, until we moved to the bad church), is mandatory! It's mandatory, because none of us is in possession of the facts necessary to make an assertion that devalues faith.

And it must be said an awful lot of the 23 percenters do exactly that. Push back is absolutely warranted in that case. If you allow the bigot a measure of peace, they will continue to be a bigot. Allow them to gather and speak with authority and we live in a world of bigots.

That's just how it is.

Faith isn't an entitlement card. Having it grants you some personal gratification and perhaps enlightenment, but nothing more. We, as people, remain equals, despite our differences in faith, and it's also then bad form to claim "holier than thou" bits because of that reality.

I absolutely HATE it when I see this. It's wrong, it's abusive, and it causes a lot of problems, which is why I'm posting now.

Faith is not a weapon, nor is it a shield either.

Attempts to use it as either are not welcome with me at all. In this, I share where Skep is coming from.

I greatly enjoy conversations about faith, sharing it, learning what it brings to those who practice it in it's many forms. I also think about the world and wonder. Science is there, as is faith to bring fuel to those idle musings.

Come on people. This isn't hard, is it?

BTW: That Hindu is now an American. He wanted citizenship here because we hold a covenant that says he is free to be who he is. That's powerful stuff! Don't dis it.

I like the "Good Eats" show a lot.

Yep. That's my favorite Food Network show. I always learn something from it.

If what Alton Brown is going to cover in a particular show is something I'll want to refer back to, I'll DVR the show.

I like "Diners, Drive-In's and Dives" too. I want his car!

Kind of like YOU thought when YOUR God was in the White House... When YOU were in control until 2006 YOU thought the same way!
GET USE TO IT!
YOU guys had NO tolerence....

Trixter, come on man. I know you are an intelligent dude. I've seen it is a few of your posts.

Lately however, all you've done is take whomever's post, turn it around back at them, throw in a few neo-con's here and there and post it up.

How about actually adding something constructive to the conversations.

You've got it in you, I know you do!

"not mocking, just saying I believe allah is not the true and living creator God as revealed in His Word the Bible and His Son Jesus Christ."

Broadway, you have your beliefs. You are entitled to them. Nobody questions that.

However, a little respect for Islam, and any and all religion outside of Christianity, might be in order for you.

You remind me, sadly, of my ex-mother in law. She was a fantastic lady who was called to heaven way too early, and she was a very devout Catholic. In one conversation we had she informed me that her view of Catholicism dictated that any Catholic that was not caught up in communion, not a part of the everyday Church, etc. is not fit to be Cathlolic, and should not be in heaven.

I can't comprehend the close-mindedness of so many religious followers. It baffles me.

Not all of them are there:

http://www.alternet.org/story/132550/the_coming_evangelical_collapse/?page=1

This is a great read on the current state and potential future for fundamentalist evangelicals.

---

quote:

[MANY --KSKD]Evangelicals have identified their movement with the culture war and with political conservatism. This will prove to be a very costly mistake. Evangelicals will increasingly be seen as a threat to cultural progress. Public leaders will consider us bad for America, bad for education, bad for children, and bad for society.

---

---

quote:

We can rejoice that in the ruins, new forms of Christian vitality and ministry will be born. I expect to see a vital and growing house church movement. This cannot help but be good for an evangelicalism that has made buildings, numbers, and paid staff its drugs for half a century.

---

>the close-mindedness of so many religious followers
Take it up with Jesus Christ and His claims/Word!
Just the messenger here...good grief...all religions claim they are the only/correct one. Just be thankful you live in America that we can be free to proclaim/talk/discuss/communicate any religion without the fear of having your head cut off/be killed.
>>a little respect for Islam
Talk about any religion that has disrupted our world today..many/most don't have much respect.

Read my post Broadway. Go read your Bible, pray, and reconsider things.

Please.

Oh God, please take the lying a-hole back before he destroys what little goodwill that is left here.

> I can't comprehend the close-mindedness of so many religious followers. It baffles me.

I will keep the comments brief as this is somewhat off topic: I've found that the type of thinking being described here can happen around any belief or ideological system, not just spiritual belief systems. For instance, there are a number of people who concluded that Objectivism (the philosophical system developed by Ayn Rand) was a cult based on their experiences in trying to join Objectivist societies or in dealing with people who called themselves Objectivists. Any dissent from the official Objectivist positions meant that one wasn't fit to be in the "in" crowd. This is quite ironic, given that Rand was an Atheist who purported to value the human mind and its pursuits. Or consider Libertarians who insist that one isn't fit to call oneself a Libertarian unless one signs the non-aggression pledge and agrees that all taxation is theft. These people can become quite authoritarian in their dealings with dissenters, which is ironic in that the Libertarian Party claims to champion freedom. I believe that there are two main factors that motivates these "fundamentalists," be they religious, Objectivist, Libertarian, etc. The first factor is a need for identity; they want to belong to some identifiable group. The second is a desire to pursue excellence; mentally, they identify some traits that are associated with the group that they identify with, and then they go out of their ways to exemplify these traits to the greatest degree possible. When they realize that other people in the group exhibit these traits to a lesser degree, they become disgusted at the "slackers" who aren't being religious, Objectivist, or Libertarian enough.

Regarding the main issue of this discussion, I don't know the process that is being used with suspected enemy combatants, and I suspect that it has deliberately been kept vague. I think that much of the arguing and debate surrounding this topic has been ideological, rather than practical. Say that the detainees were put in maximum security prisons on the U.S. mainland. Would they really be that much more likely to break out and commit acts of terror?

"Say that the detainees were put in maximum security prisons on the U.S. mainland. Would they really be that much more likely to break out and commit acts of terror?"


Why should we? What's the difference? Bar are bars. Or are you thinking it would be better to let them bunk with Bubba the Love Sponge and get a real taste of an American prison.

I have no arguments against "bars are bars." The part that I see as purely ideological is the disagreement that some people have over the potential world perception of closing the Guantanamo Bay base. There appears to be one group that believes that closing the base is bad because it would show weakness. There is another group that believes that operating the base makes the US appear hypocritical, and as a result closing the base could, potentially, benefit foreign relations.

"Talk about any religion that has disrupted our world today..many/most don't have much respect."

I would venture to guess that the same amount of blood, if not MORE, is on the hands on Christianity than Islam over the course of history.

Look at our own nation, even in recent history! The Aryan Nations is a Christian group. Lots of blood on THEIR hands, the blood of Jews, African-Americans, Homosexuals ... look at the Civil Rights movement and the backlash. Again, much in the name of YOUR God. The persecution of the Native American people, again anglo, Christian men pushing their way through. Slavery! Wow ...

Again Broadway, look AT YOUR OWN FAITH before lambasting other faiths. Do you know any people of Islamic faith? Ever talk to a Muslim? Ever read the Quran, study the prophecies of Mohammed? Maybe you'll discover that it is a peaceful, loving religion that the vast majority of the Islamic world follows. Much like Christianity, the religion in and of itself is peaceful. Al Qaeda is not a good representation of the Islamic faith, much like the Irish Republican Army isn't a good representation of Christianity.

How can a smart guy like yourself be so damn ignorant? I have a word for people like you Broadway; SHEEPLE.