YEP, they realllllly care about the little guy:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/18024.html

Oh, OK.

If Bush puts up a stimulus package, it's wrong, it sucks, it'll ruin the country, we're just stealing from or children and grandchildren, etc, etc according to the libs.

BUT let lord Obama put one up and it's gospel, the best thing ever for the country and anybody that is against it should either be shot, run out of the country or banished to the frozen tundra.

It's sickening, libs.

Hear, hear, Bill! Spot on!

Bill, can you name a true stimulus package (not counting a big tax cut for the rich) that Bush proposed that was opposed by liberals?

Deficit spending in good times is a bad idea. Deficit spending in a slow economy or a national emergency is a necessity. I don't think any "libs" seriously opposed any sort of spending packages by Bush in the last year. As I said, give me a specific example and not a "strawman."

There was so much whining and boo hoo'ing on this board when Bush proposed his stimulus package (mentioning all the items that I did above)

Now that Obama is proposing his it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

What's the difference?

The US is still going to borrow the money from somewhere for this package just like they did for Bush's package.

Paul Krugman has already blasted the GOP for creating a ruckus and told Obama to ignore the likes of Skybill:

But here’s the thing: Most Americans aren’t listening. The most encouraging thing I’ve heard lately is Mr. Obama’s reported response to Republican objections to a spending-oriented economic plan: “I won.” Indeed he did — and he should disregard the huffing and puffing of those who lost.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/opinion/26krugman.html?_r=1

Note: Paul Krugman won the Nobel prize in economics. Skybill's man lost in November.

Skybill-

As we can see Bush's stimulus package was a huge success.

Obama is already willing to remove portions from the bill some GOP members were having a hard time with. Bush/Cheney would have railroaded there way through without regard to the bigger picture.

You're just going to have to get used to an intelligent man as president.

So Bill, I take you can't give me a specific example then? I.e. you're just remembering "libs" whining about things but you can't prove it?

Skybill, your complaint is misdirected.

First, the Republicans have praised Obama's willingness to hear them out. The snafu is that the Democratic House is getting back at the Republican House, showing them the same non-consideration the Republicans showed them previous to '06.
Second, the Bush "stimulus" was nothing but a huge, undocumented giveaway to no one but huge financial corporations, specifically those in favor with the GOP.

Second, the House will pass the bill and it's not until it gets to the Senate that it will be modified, by both parties.

Also, there was no "whining" by anyone anywhere about the Bush stimulus until it was discovered that the money trail was vapor. Make your points, Skybill, but stop inventing facts to support your positions. No one around here is going to let you skip on non-facts.

So if anyone is going to whine, get the facts straight.

*******************************

The Republican Party is in dire straits. The economy is going to rebound, and if they play obstructionist there will be two results. First there will be less GOP presence after '10 midterm elections and second, there will be a strong independent showing that will succeed in splintering Republican voters to the point that some pundits will call it the death of the GOP.

Andrew, You've been around long enough to remember all the posts whining about it.

I can't find the threads, maybe they've been moved to the archives.

I'm sure you remember them too. Either that or your memory is worse than mine!

Bill, no offense, but I think you are misremembering or exaggerating some things that were said by the "libs."

Have no doubt that Bush took plenty of heat here in the last few years over things like tax cuts for the rich while we were still borrowing heavily from China, but I cannot recall anyone singling out a Bush stimulus package that wasn't really a tax cut in disguise. Now, in 2008 we had that $150B plan but that was as much a Democratic Congressional plan as it was Bush's; the people criticizing that were also knocking Pelosi and Reid for supporting it, not just Bush. Those same people might have a different outlook today as the economy looks to be in far worse shape now than it did a year ago.

I'd support a stimulus package if it has absolutely ZERO pork in it, but knowing how greedy politicians are, that's an unrealistic expectation.

Also, like the bailout package any funds that are directly given to corporations should be loans and can not be used for bonuses for the execs.

I've got no issue with the execs getting big salaries and bonuses, but if the company is suffering because of their management, they don't deserve either.

And as Andy mentions in his post above, there must be a paper trail of who gets what and how much.

There should also be restrictions as to what can be done with the money.

"I'd support a stimulus package if it has absolutely ZERO pork in it, but knowing how greedy politicians are, that's an unrealistic expectation."

Actually, Obama's proposal has MUCH less pork than Bush's. Obama has improved the transparency, by cutting out the middle man, the lobbyists, in the White House anyways, and laying down a code of ethics that most any conservative should be proud of.

A stimulus package with ZERO pork, ZERO earmarks, is not feasible. And there will still be some earmarks, they have to get a lot more creative now with them because they can't be so overt. Lobbyists' influence being curtailed will help a lot too ... but one with ZERO pork can't happen.

Remember, what may be good for Clark County, and wanted and appreciated by Vancouver residents, is "pork" to every other county in the US.

the propoosed"fairness doctrin" is actually government censorship and crackdown on free speech!that is not in lock-step with the ruling party!!!??

"Economic recovery" = "stimulus" = "pork." Pure and simple.

An economic recovery package that does nothing but create new jobs is even 100% pork because whatever the projects performed and/or services performed were determined to be better than other projects and/or services.

And as Andy mentions in his post above, there must be a paper trail of who gets what and how much.

There should also be restrictions as to what can be done with the money.

I agree, but it's unrealistic. Paper trails can be munged and restrictions with what's done with the money can be bent.

Another problem is the old "just let the market sort it out" recovery plan. If we did that this time around, we might all be living in tent cities and starving to death before things turn around.

Remember, what may be good for Clark County, and wanted and appreciated by Vancouver residents, is "pork" to every other county in the US.

Besides, what if that Clark County project that's deemed "necessary" as part of a pork barrel agreement is the light rail line that doesn't meet Federal sufficiency standards (similar to WES)?

If they put loot rail into Clark County, then it should be self sufficient.

It should be run like a business and either turn a profit (or at least sustain itself)or it shouldn't be built.

Let's run the Pentagon as a business and see if they can make a profit.

Sure. That would make our soldiers mercenaries.

You OK with that? Or would you rather they just disband the entire military?

Do you speak Farsi, Arabic, Chinese or Russian?

Here's an idea. Let's pull our troops out of every country around the world and let them fend for themselves. Along with the troops we pull out, we cut all funding to those countries too.

That would save a ton of money.

We can then station the troops on our borders to keep the terrorists out. If you are seen crossing the border illegally, you get a .223 to the head. Problem solved.

(Makes as much sense as your statement about the Pentagon which, by the way, has nothing to do with loot rail)

"the propoosed"fairness doctrin" is actually government censorship and crackdown on free speech!that is not in lock-step with the ruling party!!!??"

Ummm... Where did that come from?

Personally, I'd like to see both Reid and Pelosi replaced in their leadership positions.

The GOP has nothing to run on but opposition to whatever the Democrats put forth. Let them oppose it. They will be digging their own graves as a result which will increase their minority position moving forward.

Can we all just agree that no matter what happens realize that any kind of stimulus program of any kind from this point forward probally won't make any difference what so ever!

Our best bet is probally to just let things in all seriousness get worse than they already are and just plain and simple bottom out.

Just my opinion but its probally for the best of all involved!

It should be run like a business and either turn a profit (or at least sustain itself)or it shouldn't be built.

Lets build the new I-5 bridge under the same conditions -- it should make a profit or shouldn't be built.

"If you are seen crossing the border illegally, you get a .223 to the head. Problem solved."

More accurately, Bill, that would be a 5.56x45mm NATO round to the head.

No, because the I-5 bridge is used by millions of people a year and is part of the interstate system, not just a select few who choose to use tax payer subsidized mass transit.

I have a better idea.

How about the tax payers subsidize my truck payment and my insurance payment. Yours too.

Skybill: Sure. That would make our soldiers mercenaries.

You OK with that? Or would you rather they just disband the entire military?

Are you saying that the government should actually pay for something that doesn't run a profit...because our representative government has decided we need a military? Get out.