http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6624867.html

What a p.i.t.a. that would be! Just what every master control needs...another program stream to manage!

Analog TV is dead to me already.

:-)

As I understand it,and I could be wrong, Normal programming will stop on the analog channels. Those with a new frequency for digital can still keep their analogs for the short time only for putting out emergency info. Not regular programming. Most probably will not. I doubt that 8, 10, and 12 will.

I wonder what the people who used to get half-decent analog reception with rabbit ears but lousy digital reception with rabbit ears are going to do? Here in Portland it's not a problem, but in the suburbs of Philly where I was just visiting family, it does seem to be a bit of an issue for some.

Andrew

"I wonder what the people who used to get half-decent analog reception with rabbit ears"

Get a better pair of rabbit ears or an inexpensive yagi. Duh.

"I wonder what the people who used to get half-decent analog reception with rabbit ears"

Most will probably just go for basic cable.

Well, for me it was quite the opposite. I got marginal analog reception with my basic rabbit ears, but with the same antenna I get excellent digital reception.

After the digital switch some viewers in very fringe areas (say in Eastern Oregon) will have only the DirecTV or Dish alternative to get reception. Could that become a rural vs. urban political issue?

"After the digital switch some viewers in very fringe areas (say in Eastern Oregon) will have only the DirecTV or Dish alternative to get reception."

Not really. The SD repeaters will still be there. They are not affected by the switch on Feb 17. I don't know of any local stations taking them down yet.

It's just a matter of time before they all switch to digital. The FCC is considering a 2012 deadline for Class A stations, LPTVs and translators. They can't all make it on by February 17th because full power stations were taken care of first.

True, Semoochie.
However, that wasn't the original statement.

Will there be pirate analog TV broadcasters?

"Senate Nears Deal To Delay Digital TV"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012303608. html

> The SD repeaters will still be there. They are not affected by the switch on Feb 17. I don't know of
> any local stations taking them down yet.

At least in the Western US, aren't most of those rural area translators owned by organizations not affiliated with the television stations that they re-broadcast?

In the case of the translator networks that are run by third parties, could the rules potentially force them to carry multiple stations on single translators, as opposed to running mujltiple translators in a single area for different stations? If there weren't such a provision, it would be somewhat pointless to force them to switch to DTV, other than to line the pockets of equipment manufacturers.

This is mainly a PR thing now. The article referenced by Steve states that they will not ask for another delay if they get this one. The current Feb17 date is already a delay. In fact, it had been delayed more than once. Those not ready are not ready due to their choosing, no other reason. The "freebie" deal could have been fixed long ago had everyone applied waaaaayyy back there in the beginning. We were told 10 months ago that we better get those coupons ordered then because they were going fast and when they were gone, they would be gone. Now, people are complaining that they can't get any. Geez, Louise, when you see ads for merchandise, don't you see the usual disclaimer: "quantities limited. Limited to supplies on hand"? Well this is the same thing. They said from the beginning that only so many would become available and when they were gone, they would be gone. Now they are saying they underestimated the demand and didn't allow for all that wanted them. If they wanted them, they should have applied earlier than last month.
It'll probably pass and the date will be delayed and when that date comes, they will discover that there are those who still will be crying because they are not ready.

If they government gave away coupons for 80% off to buy a hybrid/electric vehicle for the shutoff date of xxxx, there would be people crying near that date that they don't have a coupon, they cannot afford one, and they did not know about it until the last minute, even though it had been promoted everywhere for two years. Some people just always wait until it is too late.

Alfredo, Some translators may be done by third parties but I think around here, they are all owned by the stations doing the translating. The maintenance is shared among them. Meaning that one station takes care of certain sites, another does some others, etc. Usually, they are all at the same site and that way only one person needs to go check on them instead of 4-5 people at each one. Eventually, those will need to convert but that is a ways off. Eventually, satellite and cables will shut off analog, also.

Ya, shutting of analog on the cable, indeed ! That has a been a controversial topic around here. School districts start whining big time about that. " We dont want to buy digital TVs for our 800 classrooms" when that is all we have right now because we got a helluva deal from the vendor last year or the year before on the 35 inch jobs . Isnt the cable company gonnah provide analog channels indefinately ? If not , why not ?

Will there be pirate analog TV broadcasters? :-)
Reminds me of the 'Low-Techs' in the movie Johnny Mnemonic, where at the end of the movie the leader asks his followers to "set your VCRs" to record the cure for NAS.

I don't know how true this is, but the FCC website has always said that hospitals and others in the health care industry use wireless devices that use unused TV frequencies in an area for things like heart monitoring, and therefore there is no such thing as "Part 15" for TV.

Hmmm....

TV's in the classroom.

Why?

I think using them to display specific program material, for the purpose of structured academic discussion, or for school produced, local broadcasts are great uses! At all other times, they should be off, and under the complete control of the educator.

(not turning on at scheduled "educational message" times)

All of that will work just fine for the foreseeable future, with the setups the schools have.

Piping in TV?

Who needs it? Kids get way too much TV as it is. With all the phones, internet, video games and such, there are way better things to do with TV's in the school, than have kids watch them.

Perhaps this is why we see a lot more kids not thinking as well as they could be thinking!

Sorry, but I've always been unhappy with things like Channel 1 in the schools. It's just not a value add, unless you like branding and messaging very early! (and no parent really does)

Programs can be recorded and used for discussion, eliminating the need for an active stream, and scheduling around that.

When I was a student, classroom TVs were occasionally used for watching events such as Space Shuttle launches. I think that was a proper use of television in the classroom, mainly because the school had discretion over how much TV would be brought in. Channel 1, in my opinion, is/was a bad idea for the schools because it forces them to present a certain number of hours of TV along with the commercials. Instead, I think that it would be better if social studies classes required students to keep up with the news on their own time and then be prepared to discuss news stories in class. I had to do this in some of my social studies classes.

On an unrelated subject, I have always found it peculiar that part-15 video transmitters were never authorized on the TV broadcast bands. I don't know whether if any one or more of the following explains why such low-powered transmitters were not allowed:

* Concern that pornographic material might be transmitted
* Home video equipment is a fairly recent development, compared to the original "phono oscillator" part-15 AM transmitters
* The video signals from home VCRs were too jittery to meet FCC standards for over-the-air TV
* The FCC thought that it would be too difficult to build a consumer device that could generate a vestigial sideband signal with sufficient frequency stability as to not interfere with licensed broadcasters on adjacent channels
* TV broadcasters and the home video industry feared that people might deliberately share movies that they rented or owned with neighbors, over the air.

The only part 15 video transmitters that I have ever seen operated either on 900 MHz or 2.4 GHz.

"I have always found it peculiar that part-15 video transmitters were never authorized on the TV broadcast bands"

Of course, in the early days of home VCRs (mid 70s) when they were expensive, many owners discovered that the Ch 3/4 output, when connected to a small antenna, could allow viewing in several rooms, and even by some close neighbors. I understand that some unscrupulous people actually fabricated small rf amplifiers, to cover a wider range.

I remember, when I was 11 or 12, hooking up the RF output of my Tandy home computers to an antenna just to see how far the signal would be receivable. A nearby TV could, indeed, receive the signal, but the RF hash that got through the computer's shielding always managed to screw up the picture, to some extent. At that time, I didn't have enough electronics knowledge or the appropriate equipment to build a VHF amplifier.

Along those lines Alfredo, back in the early to mid 70's, while I was in High School, I had a little side business of repairing radios and TV's in my parents home in St. Louis. I also worked on CB radios and as such had a 27 MHz ground plane on the roof.

One night sitting at my bench I hooked up my trusty B&K E200D RF signal generator to the antenna and just started sweeping thru a bunch of frequencies to see what it would do

I really didn't think much of it until a couple of days later a neighbor lady asked me if I was doing any thing in "my shop".

I said no and asked her why.

She said that a couple of nights before her garage door kept going up and down and up and down!

Ooops!

I remember the days when those 27 MHz ground plane antennas were a common sight on a lot of homes and commercial buildings. I've been keeping my eye open for one, as I'd like to use it with some old CB radios that I have and for the 10 meter amateur band.

Well now that Congress has pushed the February 17 deadline to June of this year, you'll have more time to scoop up someone's rooftop antenna!

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Bucking the Obama administration, House Republicans on Wednesday defeated a bill to delay the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting to June 12 - leaving an estimated 6.5 million U.S. households unprepared for the switchover.

The 258-168 vote failed to clear the two-thirds threshold needed for passage in a victory for GOP members, who warn that postponing the transition from the current Feb. 17 deadline would confuse consumers.

House Republicans say a delay also would burden wireless companies and public safety agencies waiting for the spectrum that will be freed up by the switch, and create added costs for television stations that would have to continue broadcasting both analog and digital signals for four more months.

The defeat is a setback for President Barack Obama and Democrats on Capitol Hill, who maintain that the Bush administration bungled efforts to ensure that all consumers - particularly poor, rural and low-income Americans - will be ready for next month's analog shut-off.

The Obama administration had no immediate comment on the House vote and the next step remains unclear.

The Nielsen Co. estimates more than 6.5 million U.S. households that rely on analog television sets to pick up over-the-air broadcast signals still are not prepared for the transition. People who subscribe to cable or satellite TV or have a newer TV with a digital tuner will not be affected.

Yet Joe Barton of Texas, the top Republican on the House Commerce Committee, insisted a postponement is not necessary.

"We could do nothing worse than to delay this transition date," Barton said. "The bill is a solution looking for a problem that exists mostly in the mind of the Obama administration."

Barton led the push to scuttle the bill, which passed the Senate unanimously on Monday night after lawmakers in that chamber struck a bipartisan compromise. Senate Democrats won over Republican support by allowing broadcast stations to make the switch from analog to digital signals sooner than the June deadline if they choose and permitting public safety agencies to take over vacant spectrum promised to them as soon as it becomes available.

But those concessions did not placate most Republicans in the House. Only 22 Republicans voted for the bill, while 155 voted against it. Among House Democrats, 236 voted for the bill and just 13 voted against it.

Congress in 2005 required broadcasters to switch from analog to digital signals, which are more efficient, to free up valuable chunks of wireless spectrum to be used for commercial services and interoperable emergency-response networks.

But the Obama administration called for the transition date to be postponed after the Commerce Department earlier this month hit a $1.34 billion funding limit for coupons to subsidize digital TV converter boxes for consumers. The coupon program allows consumers to request up to two $40 vouchers per household to help pay for the boxes, which translate digital signals back into analog ones for older TVs. The boxes generally cost between $40 and $80 each and can be purchased without a coupon.

The National Telecommunications and Information Administration, the arm of the Commerce Department administering the program, is now sending out new coupons only as older, unredeemed ones reach a 90-day expiration date and free up more money. The NTIA had nearly 2.6 million coupon requests on a waiting list last week and those people will not receive their coupons before Feb. 17.

Barton, for one, is pushing legislation to fix the coupon program without delaying next month's transition.

Yet Senate Commerce Committee Chairman John D. Rockefeller, D-W.Va., author of the bill to postpone the switchover, said a delay is the only way to ensure that millions of Americans don't see their television screens go dark next month.

"The outgoing Bush administration grossly mismanaged the digital television transition and consumers are confused, households are not prepared, and the coupon program for converter boxes is broken," Rockefeller said in a statement after the House vote.

Gene Kimmelman, vice president for federal policy at the Consumers Union, which has been lobbying for a delay, said he hopes House Democrats will bring the bill up again for a regular floor vote, which would only require majority support to pass. Wednesday's vote took place under a special procedure that required two-thirds support for passage.

I wonder, who (most likely somebody in the "wireless industry") lobbied so effectively to get most of the Republicans to defeat this?

It should be defeated. People can go out and by a converter off the shelf right now. They just want the freebie that was advertised for so long that they chose to not apply for until it was too late. It was always advertised as limited supply and first come first served.
I hear that Rick Emerson summed it up best today. Basically, most of the remaining need to have their tv's go dark or snow and then they will get off their duff and go get the converter. There is no reason why people should not be ready. Why penalize the millions who planned ahead and got ready and have finished doing so, with or without freebie coupons.

There has got to be a time when people start taking responsibility for their own future and act on it rather than procrastinating, expecting the government and those who did plan to pay the slackers, too.

According to Tom's post, the authors of the delay bill compromised and said broadcasters could still changeover on Feb 17 if they desired.
Most desire to anyway.
Believe it or not, there are more important things for the Congress to be considering right now than whether people get a $40 coupon to watch TV.
For instance, they should be addressing 62kgw's desire to have KISN back on 910. Just so he would quit bringing it up and beating that dead horse. Or proposing a stimulus bill that is at least 99% stimulus generating, rather than 87% pork and non stimulus generating.

Alfredo, Check out this one. I'm sure if you called them they could lower the bottom end to include 27 MHz.

http://www.kathrein-scala.com/vhf-low.htm

Scala is down in Medford (in case you are not familiar with them!)

I'm not real sure why we need to protect idiots from themselves. After all these months and years, you still don't know whether or not you need a box????????????????????????????????????????

On the 17th, when they turn their TVs on and don't see a signal, maybe THEN they'll know there's a problem and maybe then they will realize they have to do something, or maybe they'll sit there and say WHAHAPPEN???????????

Let the digital switch begin.

I'm not real sure why we need to protect idiots from themselves.

One day when you end up having to take care of an elderly and/or feeble family member, you'll understand exactly who they're talking about.


At any rate, at this point it looks like the changeover is still going to happen on the 17th.

...unless it's vetoed.

Come to think of it, I've no clue to what Obama's thoughts are on this topic. Since I've no opinion at this time, its not a political question!

However, if there is no bill, there is nothing for Obama to veto!

"House set to vote again on analog shutdown delay"

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TEC_DIGITAL_TV_TRANSITION?SITE=WIRE&SECTI ON=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

It won't make any difference what they do in Portland as all are going to shutdown anyway.

It is a political thing more than anything else. Most of those not ready now won't be ready in four months, either. There are those people who won't do anything until they are forced to.
6.5 million households might decide an election but 6.5 million out of the whole country is not a very large amount, relatively speaking.

There are conflicting opinions of where the delay is coming from. Some say that the stations can't wait to turn off their analog transmitter and save money on their electric bill, but they don't want to be the first in their area because they'll look like "the bad guys" and will be saturated with angry phone calls.

Some claim that early shutdowns (which stations can do with FCC approval) have been "disasters". I've tried to find out what qualifies as a "disaster" in television broadcasting and apparently it's "lots of phone calls". WECT in Wilmington, NC is cited as a "disaster". The FCC report says the station received 424 phone calls after they shut down. That's a lot of calls but it's a small fraction of the estimated 14,000 OTA viewers in the area. They say they received 1,200 phone calls but that includes calls received before the shutdown.

I think some stations don't know how to prepare for this. When you release a new product, you expect lots of phone calls, so you get employees to man the phones or you hire temps until the call volume drops. Television stations haven't "released a new product" in 50 years and some act like anything that requires them to assist their customers through the transition is unacceptable. Those of us in software go through these support nightmares every year!

Is it safe to say that the exact shutdown times of Portland stations is indeterminate at this time? Or, is 11:59 on Feb. 17 a safe assumption? I intend on airchecking as many of the shutdowns as possible, but I will have to program VCRs to do this because I will be on a flight back to Portland when the shutdown occurs.

>>>The FCC report says the station received 424 phone calls after they shut down.<<<

OPB is going to have a phone bank open, during the local DTV transition week.

Why not pool resources and tool up for the calls?

All the stations fund a temporary call center. The center stays neutral, but for responding to the call as if it's managed directly by the station. (which it kind of is)

Have some ready resources, like where boxes can be purchased, maybe have a stash of giveaways for really tough cases, etc...

People call, and they get some good info, nice people to talk to, options, and assurances that they are not alone, the transition is good, etc...

Work through it, and it's all over in a coupla months. Scale down the center until it's just a few people, handling tech issues.

Those calls are a chance to make a good impression, take feedback, surveys, pitch the web site, do a promotion deal with hardware people for antennas, converters and such.

Doesn't have to be a bad thing. Can't tell you how many angry calls I've flipped into opportunities of some kind. All it's gonna take is nice (really freaking nice) people on the phone, some thought put into the response flow charts, and people willing to listen for a while, not just handle the call quick.

Some other ideas that might make sense:

Since there are gonna be calls, maybe jump the gun and setup some basic things people can do on the calls:

Sign up for e-mail program guides?

Rent a geek to setup your stuff?

(that one might be a money maker, you never know)

Participate in a TV focus group where they get to help pick the programming to be seen on THEIR NEW FREE DIGITAL CHANNELS?

E-mail / web / mailer for tips, tricks and DTV news in the Portland Area?

Sign them up for "phone it in" or "send it in news" tips? (probably bad, but I'm just hammering out ideas here)

Help a friend for something? Maybe mention in the news letter, movie credits at NetFlix, something? The more you do, the more you get, kind of a thing? (maybe fire that one off with the local geek clubs)

Maybe do a deal with that new ClearWire Internet provider. Get signed up and get your TV dealt with at the same time? Who knows?

Do they want the free booklet that has the things you need to know as a DTV user / consumer? You know, how to do it for idiots guide starts on page 1, and yes you can call back if you need more help!

Anyway, my point is that a lot of incoming calls might have some potential of some kind. It's all in the planning right now. Some of that stuff can happen damn quick!

Now's the time to brainstorm and figure out ways to resolve the calls on a good note, before they just end up bad.

"Will there be pirate analog TV broadcasters?"

Yes! And I'm betting they'll be on the air very quickly, maybe the same day as the change, to catch any lagging watchers of analog. I'm thinking we might even have more VHF channels to choose from than ever before! While everyone is over on HD, I'm going to be DXing analog. We might also see translator stations that will travel a lot further with high power stations gone. It might be very interesting and surprising.

My thoughts exactly Craig.. I'm betting analog pirate TV stations will start popping up all over the place.

Agreed!!

It's the perfect chance to catch some viewers. Wonder what they will air.

Porn? (gonna happen)

Issues?

Ethnic Programming?

News?

What else?

Two words, folks: AMATEUR TELEVISION.

I've never seen any Ham TV in Portland (yet), but I'll probably have to dig out my parents' old cable box one of these days and plug it in to my antenna. I've an odd clairvoyant feeling that there might be somebody doing analogue Ham TV here, not too far in the future.........

My thought is the pirates will re-broadcast the local HD stations as a public service or take direct network satellite feeds.

Or we might see cable channels broadcast. I've heard in the past Christian Radio pirates re-broadcasting Christian Music & Talk networks.

As I understand it, there is an amateur TV repeater in Portland. The catch is that the input frequency is in the 430 MHz range, and the output is in the low gigahertz range, using FM, rather than vestigial sideband AM. Likely, HAMs using the repeater are going to "beam" their signals into the repeater with directional antennas. Years ago, a HAM was telling me that simplex ATV contacts over some 20 miles or so could be made on 430 MHz with 15 watts of power, or so, which to me suggests that very directional antennas are being used. You would have to be very lucky to be sitting smack dab in the middle of the path of the signal to be able to pick it up--yet it is still worth a try.

As far as the TV pirates go, I think that it would be really cool if some of them aired those creepy old Cold War era educational and propaganda films like "Duck and Cover." Or, they might run quirky old movies like "Reefer Madness." It would be really damn cool to see some crazy guy make a big old superturnstile for channel 6 and put it on his roof!!!

All I know is, there's got to be somewhere a TV pirate preparing, building or already to begin broadcasting as I'm writing this. Remember, they've had a long time to build their station.

I'm kinda excited because it's the unknown.

I'll be up tuning for sure. You are so right too. It's not often we see a change like this.

Somebody is going to take advantage of it.

Just in case that a pirate fires up on one of the vacated channels, it might be a good idea to do my airchecking in LP or SLP modes and program the recorder to start at 11:00 PM and to run until the tape ends. What do you think?

How about the CP that Watch TV has for ch 6?

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=71080

Might they turn on a signal Feb 18?

COL is Newberg... but it looks like the transmit site is Skyline.

Supposedly KOXO-CA's filed an application to start throwing ATSC on channel 44.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOXO-CA

It goes to Barry's desk today to sign, so now all of the homeless guys won't go without the all important tv for a few more months.
I am so glad our President thought that THIS was the most pressing issue of the day. Hallelujah

From The Oregonian:
"However, Portland's stations intend to drop analog broadcasts after Feb. 17. A couple stations have suggested they might yet delay the transition if they decide viewers aren't ready."

As much as TV stations spend to attract viewers, it's hard to imagine them flipping the off switch to save money for four months - including sweeps.

Tom: Not to mention advertisers.

"I want half of MY MONEY BACK, since YOUR Station no longer broadcasts on analog!"

LOL!!!

Has that one actually been phoned in?

...if so, the clear answer is: "But now your stuff looks twice as good!"

I'll ask this again since it was brought up: If the digital TVs automatically switch to channel 6 from 40(or is it 43?), what happens when there's another channel 6 in the area? The same thing is happening on 24.

That's the same think I've thought of regarding the channel mapping... specifically, what keeps some station/group with a beef against another idea set from re-mapping their station to another popular station in the market? For example, say a religious broadcasting outfit doesn't like the Super Bowl, so they remap their station to the same channel of the station that's carrying the game, hoping that instead of people being able to watch a football game they're instead hearing some preacher blast on and on about the day of reckoning or whatever.

In case no one saw it, Congress moved the analog sunset date back to June 12. I about half expected the person who drafted the bill, to say he was dropping it because so many stations making the change this month would make the whole thing moot and actually inconvenience some people.

What are local TV stations saying about this new announcement? Let's find out on their websites:

[2] "Despite Congress' DTV postponement KATU intends to make the switch on Feb 17th."

[6] Has no comment but KOIN is still running its countdown clock to Feb 17th.

[8] "KGW management is still discussing their specific transition date."

[10] Has no comment and no story about this in OPB's national news but continues to show a February switch.

[12] Has no comment and no story about this in Fox 12 national news.

Unless things change, I see nothing here that says June.

It's gotta be costly to transmit both signals. Maybe TV stations should ask for a "Handout" like everyone else seems to be doing these days!

Is there anything that will require TV stations to continue analog broadcast up to the new date?

At some point in the process of preparing for the switch from analog to digital the Congress suddenly realized what was going to happen on the day of the change. Up til then they had been pushing the broadcasters hard to get it done so they can sell most of the old TV spectrum.

After the first extension which was requested by the broadcasters and grudgingly granted by the Congress, something happened that changed their attitude overnight. Since then the Congress has been scared stiff about this whole deal, and pushed hard on the FCC and the TV stations to educate the public.

A Pew Trust survey today shows tht 97% of the people in the country know about the change. That means 3% don't. 3% is a lot of people. Here in Texas most of that 3% live down near the Mexican border where there isn't any cable. Many of the 3% are older folks.

So, in their usual CYA method of operation, the Congress voted for one more extension to June 12. I don't think it matters when this happens, as there will always be people who don't do anything until they see nothing but snow on the screen and hear white noise static from the speakers.

Meanwhile many Broadcasters have a problem due to expiring tower leases, costly dual operation, etc. And they're asking themselves if they want to be the only all digital station in town if there are any number of sets that will still only see analog during the upcoming May sweeps.

An argument for staying on schedule: think of all the analog channel 2's across the country with hams in their engineering departments, all salivating over the thought of firing up their 6 meter rigs into the channel 2 antennas on February 18th! Should be quite the QSO party!

There are a number of HAMs in this area who are anticipating the signoff of KATU for interference reasons. According to one HAM website, the transmitter currently in use at KATU has poorer attenuation of the lower sideband than the old RCA tube transmitter that they used years ago.

Getting to transmit on 6m from the KATU antenna would be pretty cool, though! HAMs generally don't have the privelege of using antennas with such a high HAAT and such a low loss transmission line. I wonder what the VSWR of the KATU superturnstile would be on the upper end of the 6m amateur band.

While thinking about 6m, it's just dawned on me what a bonanza the analog shutoff will be for hams in channel 2 markets. No more hash from TV transmitters and no more TVI complaints when operating on 6!

While they're playing with KATU's channel 2 antenna I hope someone connects a sensitive channel 2 demod to find out if the Vancouver channel 2 is receivable.

Hope someone Feb 17th will start a thread with just reports from DXers on what they are seeing and hearing in their area. It might be very limited given (I'm guessing)these pirates won't be broadcasting with 316kw transmitters like we're used too!

Has the hour been announced when the switch will take place or is it at midnight?

Right in the middle of Letterman and Leno?

Channel 2 has decided not to go off on Feb 17.
Craig. Low band VHF is limited to 100KW.

HWidsein has it correct. It doesn't matter when they shut down analog transmission. Those same numbers still won't be ready. Basically, those same people not ready now still won't be ready on June 12 or any extended day. As Hal said, " I don't think it matters when this happens, as there will always be people who don't do anything until they see nothing but snow on the screen and hear white noise static from the speakers."

The delay is ridiculous. It is primarily political. There are converter boxes sitting on store shelves. They are available. Some won't buy them without help from the government to buy them but will go out and spend more than that at the casinos, on beer, and other things. It is a matter of priorities.

The delay is ridiculous. It is primarily political. There are converter boxes sitting on store shelves. They are available. Some won't buy them without help from the government to buy them...
IMO, if they really wanted to speed things up, the would've also mandated that any retailer that participates in the coupon program must sell all eligible converter boxes for the $40 coupon price, and additionally that the boxes are not subject to any state/local taxes derived from the sale of goods. Furthermore, they'd require that any eligible converter box inventory from any company liquidating due to bankruptcy be donated to charitable organizations to distribute to their clients for free (since with bankruptcy, the investors lost their money anyway). That would mean the coupons would cover the price of the converter box, none of this BS that the place selling the boxes can pilfer another $5-$20 off of people on top of the coupon price, and those handled by service agencies that have no resources to request a coupon or pay outright would have an option.

Question: Can the FCC stop TV stations from switching on February 17th?

If so, will those stations obey the FCC if they've signed contracts to move off towers by February 17th?

Will we see the FCC mandating stations to turn back ON their analog transmitters after February 17th?

This might get very interesting.

They said it was optional.

Will the FCC change its mind on optional when thousands of complaints start rolling in? "We didn't receive our coupons!"

There are basic boxes that will do the job and suffice. Those are the cheaper ones. The ones with the bells and whistles and perform better generally cost more. Not all converters are eligible for the coupons. Generally speaking, some of the better ones are not.

I maintain that anyone paying attention and wanting the coupons could have applied long ago and got them by now. They always said limited supply and when gone they are gone so apply early. There is no excuse for not getting one other than they just didn't apply for them early on.

KGW, KATU, and now KOIN has caved. Wonder who'll be next?

Another point I think is worth pondering. I've been told by sales people all my working life that "it's all about demographics." If that's true, then I wonder who was the first brainiac who decided this particular demo was worth leaving the analog box on through May sweeps? Maybe if your business specialized in 9 volt batteries it would make some sense, because I guarantee this is the same demo with dead smoke detector batteries!

Question: Can the FCC stop TV stations from switching on February 17th?

Yes. If they want to, they can.

If so, will those stations obey the FCC if they've signed contracts to move off towers by February 17th?

Moving off the tower, as in removing the antenna at the top of a tower and removing hundreds of feet of rigid coax doesn't happen overnight. It is a major undertaking. If for example there is a tower owner with plans to put an FM broadband antenna for multiple users on top, any dates on any contracts more than likely have a clause covering any delay imposed by the government. My guess is that projects like the example aren't going to proceed until the shutoff date, with contract terms and day counts not even starting until then.

Will we see the FCC mandating stations to turn back ON their analog transmitters after February 17th?

Good question, but I'm inclined to believe the answer is definitely not. There is no valid reason to do that.

Since I advocated for stoicism over whining on the other side of the board, I do not want to make myself too much of a hypocrite, and I do not want to get too political. Having said that, I think that this, along with what politicians propose, for example, as their energy policy, show that the people making these types of decisions are largely from legal or other liberal arts types of backgrounds. As Andy put it some time ago, these types of decisions are made via a "political process." In other words, since the people making the decisions are not of a technical background, they are swayed by lobbyists and people whose job it is to promote technologies with whiz-bang marketing BS jargon. This transition was bound to screw somebody over (hint: Verizon, Microsoft, and Google won't be the ones getting bent over the table).

Someone told me KPTV will hold out until June 12. If that's the case, I certainly expect KPDX to do the same.

There are basic boxes that will do the job and suffice. Those are the cheaper ones. The ones with the bells and whistles and perform better generally cost more. Not all converters are eligible for the coupons. Generally speaking, some of the better ones are not.
I've seen even the basic boxes advertised for $60, meaning someone would have to pay $20 extra, even with a $40 coupon. Or, the box is $40 online, meaning the buyer is on the hook for S&H (not free).

So that leaves only OPB on VHF still saying it's switching Feb 17th. (Just checked the OPB website.) Will Public Broadcasting be the only hold out, or will they cave?

...and 22.

Kptv mentioned that Channel 12 and 49 will go digital only in June.

Semoochie last time I checked 22 was on UHF.

They WERE on VHF. Actually, I was just mentioning any local stations that were going to hold out or in this case, won't.

"If that's the case, I certainly expect KPDX to do the same."

Of course. KPDX can't switch until KPTV does. KPTV needs to vacate 30 before KPDX can move to it.

Could they just turn off 49 and continue to broadcast digital on 48 ? or are they locked into switching to 30 at the time 49 is turned off ?

I just figured, whatever one did, the other would also because of common ownership.

This digital delay is all politics. There are a lot of groups representing...you name it....old people, poor people, etc. who have convinced the government that there are about 3% of the population that aren't equipped for the switch, and those people will be disadvantaged by having the change begin on February 17th. The Congress is scared to death that they will get the blame when people lose their analog signal, and they're right. So, they're trying to do everything possible to make the change as painless for themselves as possible. They are auctioning off part of the TV VHF channels and the remaining portion is being dedicated to public service. There are still a lot of places in the country where the fire department and police department and state patrol can't talk to each other over their two way equipment. That's what part of the spectrum will be used for.

"about 3% of the population that aren't equipped for the switch"

Slightly less than 1% of the population does not have an indoor bathroom, and plumbing has been around a lot longer than HDTV or even TV or even electricity! How low does the percentage need to go to convince the politicians that we can throw the switch/yank the plug?

"Could they just turn off 49 and continue to broadcast digital on 48 ? or are they locked into switching to 30 at the time 49 is turned off ?"
I don't know the legality but it is a moot point for them. They would lose coverage to do that. They suffered damage to their 48 system and don't seem eager to fix it and are running at a substantially reduced power level. No point in spending the money when they planned to vacate it in a few, now 6, months.

I would like to have those returning to their upper VHF to do the conversion now, if only for a day, so we can see how it is going to work with all the receivers around the area. They are going to run on their VHF channel at a substantially reduced power level than their current analog VHF signals are at.

This from The Oregonian:

Portland stations give analog TV a reprieve

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/1233978907 213900.xml&coll=7

Copied from Towers & Much

As near as I can tell from the FCC's TV Query, here is what the full-power stations are doing.

Call, analog channel, digital channel, digital power (ERP), eventual channel, eventual power.

KATU 2 43 1000 kW
KOIN 6 40 1000 kW
KGW 8 46 1000 kW 8 45 kW
KOPB 10 27 753 kW 10 32.4 kW
KPTV 12 30 741 kW 12 24.5 kW
KPXG 22 22 745 kW
KNMT 24 45 1000 kW
KRCW 32 33 1000 kW
KPDX 49 48 1000 kW 30 1000 kW

KGW analog 8, KOPB analog 10 and KPTV analog 12 are all presently running 316 kW (erp), the max for hi-band VHF... any predictions* on how satisfactory 25-45 kW digital transmission will be?

*from "real life" experience... not just circles on a FCC map.

The DTV powers were chosen based on tests previously conducted whereby coverage equivalent to existing analog coverage would be achieved so that Class A and Class B contours would remain the same.

If the TV digital is anywhere near as efficient as the Radio digital, there is plenty of power at those levels. Unlike analog, digital is line of sight and doesn't give you a snowy signal. You either have a signal or you don't. there is going to be a period of time when there will be advances in digital transmission and receivers. Today's state of the art will be old news tomorrow. In the beginning of TV it took a number of years to get it right, and then again with color. This is a whole new transmission system, so you can expect some glitches. Digital Cell phones have been around for 10 years and they don't have that totally right yet.

Does anybody know how the maximum power levels of 316 kW and 100 kW for NTSC on VHF-high and VHF-low, respectively, were chosen? If I had to take an educated guess, it would be that vacuum tube front ends had noise figures that got poorer with increasing frequency, and the power levels were set in light of that. However, I hope that somebody can provide a more authoritative answer.

Ballpark figures that I have seen for tube front ends are that one could expect a noise figure of about 6dB at 108 MHz*, and that the noise goes up with the square root of frequency. Modern tuners with low noise devices in the front end (such as GaAs transistors) could easily achieve noise figures on the order of 1dB or so. Thus, 316 kW is probably overkill for contemporary tuners within line of sight of the transmitting antenna. On the other hand, I am skeptical of some of the really low proposed power levels (like WSFA's proposed ~1.6kW on Channel 12).

* The source for this was a description of a low-noise front end designed to receive the 108 MHz beacons from some of the early satellites. This type of information is hard to find, leading me to think that in the 1950s, this was a difficult measuremnt to make, and TV tuner designers just tried their best to maximize the sensitivity of their tuners with the small selection of VHF consumer-grade tubes that were available back then.

Whereas noise is a factor in determining the limits of acceptable reception at some distance, it is not what the NTSC power levels are based on. It's more about field strength and free space loss. It's quite complicated. Receiver noise contributes to where the level of RF has diminished to the point of unacceptable picture quality, but the actual power level is determined by figuring how much power you need to get to the same coverage at the different frequencies. If you're brave, read on:

NTSC Predicted Coverage and Field Strength¹:

An NTSC picture is most often evaluated on the basis of a “graceful degradation” due to an ever increasing video artifact which stems from random noise, RF interference, and other propagation anomalies as distance (from the TV transmitter) is increased. A subjective “impairment” rating consisting of five levels of picture quality is used to grade the NTSC picture. A perfect picture is a level 5 picture and a level 1 picture is considered non-viewable. FCC Technical Standards imply an approximate relationship between picture quality and inverse

1 The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has determined that the term “fieldstrength” relates specifically to the voltage component of field power which is, in turn, referred to as“field intensity.”


distance field strength (absent interference from other sources and assuming average terrain gradations) in the form of published propagation prediction curves derived through computer modeling.These same standards define the unit of measure for field strength as dBuV/M or dB above one microvolt per meter. These propagation curves are used to construct field strength contour maps that predict coverage over average terrain in the absence of interference from other television stations.Experience shows that, under actual conditions, the presence of trees, buildings, and terrain irregularities frequently result in large measured variations from location to location even within relatively small areas.The following table depicts NTSC compliant median F (50,50) signal level contours as specified by FCC Technical Standards:

Table 1:NTSC requirements for City Grade, Grade A, and Grade B field strength contours

Channels	City Grade	Grade A	Grade B
	mV/M__dBuV/M	mV/M__dBuV/M	mV/M__dBuV/M
Channels 2 - 6	5.0____74.0	2.5____68.0	0.2____47.0
Channels 7 - 13	7.1____77.0	3.6____71.0	0.6____56.0
Channels 14 - 83	10.0___80.0	5.0____74.0	1.66____4.0

Coverage as set forth in Table 1 represents the minimum median value of field strength that would be imposed on a receiving antenna which is positioned at a height of 30 ft. above ground, at a specified distance from a NTSC transmitter. It is further assumed that the source transmitting antenna is positioned at a specific elevation above average terrain and that it is transmitting at a specific power level. (It is important to note that, although reasonably accurate field strength measurements may be obtained at receiving antenna elevations of less than 30 feet using appropriate antenna calibration factors, it is not possible to infer 30 ft. field strength values through interpolation of data obtained in that mode.)Even though the FCC requires the use of its F (50,50) curves in predicting the distance to the fieldstrength contours, it also cautions that the prediction curves are to be used with an appreciation of their limitations in estimating levels of field strength. Further, it should be clearly understood that the quality of NTSC service at any given location is a function not only of field strength it is also a function of receiver noise figure and sensitivity, receiving antenna gain and orientation, transmission line loss, and spurious RF emissions. However, for purposes of standardization and station authorization the F (50,50) charts have proven to be a valuable first approximation prediction tool.The F (50,50) field strength curves are predicated upon statistical mean and standard deviation calculations which determine the mean field strength value that will be meet or exceeded at the best 50% of the locations for at least 50 % of the time. This methodology would imply that if one were to attempt to prove (or disprove) the Grade B contour arc of a given station by measuring field strength with a horizontally polarized antenna positioned 30 feet above ground level, in one degree azimuthal increments, one would expect to see at least 180 locations (out of 360) exhibiting the predicted mean field strength at least 50% of the time. These prediction charts are based on an effective power of 1 kW radiated from a half-wave dipole in free space, which produces anunattenuated field strength at 1 mile of about 103 dB above 1 mV/M and they can be readily scaled to accommodate different power levels, depression angles, antenna gain, topography, etc.In addition to the F (50,50) curves for Channels 2 - 6 (Low V), 7-13 (High V) and 14-83 (UHF) the FCC Technical Standards contain F (50,10) prediction curves (estimated field strength exceeded at 50% of potential receiver locations for at least 10% of the time) for each of the same 3 frequency bands. It follows then, that the coverage area which is bounded by the F (50,10) delimiters is greater than the area bounded by the F (50,50) delimiters. (The area beyond the Grade B contour is some-times referred to as the deep fringe area in the terrestrial broadcast industry.)

Here is the full paper from Potomac Instruments. The DTV discussion in the paper shows what they cooked up for the TOV (threshold of visibility) which is defined as the Carrier to Noise + Interference ratio (currently 15.2 dB) which is required to produce,
at the input of the receiver’s digital decoder, a digital bit stream of sufficient quality so as to be properly decoded and transformed into coherent program material output. Further empirically defined as 2.5 segment errors per second (SER) based upon the Advisory Committee on Advanced
Television Service (ACATS) tests.

Remember in any digital transmission (on fiber, wire, wireless) the key factor in determining quality is the bit error rate or ratio

The upshot is that although noise in receivers is pivotal, what it does is provide an indication of what signal strength minimum will be required to obtain a viewable signal. Then propagation loss is used to calculate what power is needed to put that signal at the A grade limit and B grade limit. This was all hashed over ten years ago when the FCC approved new methodology for measuring Grade B coverage to determine when households can't receive adequate broadcast TV signal, making them eligible to receive national network feeds via satellite.

2.2 is now running old movies from "This" network. KORS has activated their jewelry channel on 16.4 and some sort of new channel on 16.3. It is labeled A1. Last night is was running auto racing programs. This morning it had a cooking show.

"....some sort of new channel on 16.3. It is labelled A1.

America One

KOXI-CA broadcasts that in NTSC........

When I first moved to Hillsboro, America One was on K04OG, which later became KENY-LP. Their schedule seemed to consist of a lot of old, somewhat obscure movies.

That was some ten years ago. Today, the idea of movies being on broadcast TV seems a bit strange.

Did YOU miss the HD RADIO SWITCH? Does YOUR RADIO have white noise static? This from All Access:

MIDWEST FAMILY BROADCASTING Top 40 WIZM/LA CROSSE, WI morning duo PAT & AJ pulled a fast one on the city by announcing that it was "DTV Day." Starting at 6a, the two warned listeners not only about the impending switch to DTV, but the much overlooked switch to HD Radio!

They then told listeners to check the back of their radio for a switch that would enable it to receive that station, and to visit local electronic stores for HD Radio convertor boxes. They kept the stunt going to until the 'time of the switch' 10a CT-- when listeners could only hear 30 seconds of 'white noise static' ...before the two revealed the scam.

Did the stunt work? Several retailers, including local BEST BUY and RADIO SHACK outlets, contacted the station to see why they were being flooded with consumers looking for a new radio. One listener had their husband take apart their car stereo to look for the switch."

Nice! HD Radio for the win! :-)