The death of the “ coveted” 25-54 female demo?

A few days ago, I was in New York chatting with some friends who have been in the industry for over two decades. The subject of the future of radio and media got brought up, and my friend and sometimes colleague of over 20 years who I can’t name for several reasons, shocked me by saying that the future of radio is NOT by appealing to the 24-54 female demo. However, after he explained, his thought process seems VERY logical. For years now, radio stations have gone after the “ 25-54” female demographic, because as the legend says: they’re the one with the money, well their husbands money anyways. If you listen to commercials of these such stations, one is bombarded with messages to basically spend, spend, and spend. These radio stations have shaped their programming so that jewelers, car companies, clothing and shoe stores, vacation and cruise companies buy advertising, so that they would influence the “ 25-54” female demographic into buying their “ vanity” products. Most women are great spenders of money that they didn’t earn (just ask my ex wife!) , and everything was great- until , well the economy collapsed and their husband was laid off, and no more money was coming in. Now, not only can 25-54 F demo not afford to buy things, most likely their credit is in shambles, their bank accounts are empty, and in many cases their retirement also evaporated. Not to mention the countless who had their house foreclosed on as well. And to cap the climax, their husbands lost jobs which may never come back. When your target demo has no money and no credit to buy things, it’s time to start looking for a new demo!

My friend suggested that stations would be wise to target single, educated, ambitious, independent, multi talented *adults* ( not just females mind you ) between the ages of 22-40. This demo likes buying gadgets, going out to eat, electronics and booze; all HUGE industries. This demo is also highly “ green”, and once the “ green” cars really start rolling off the line, you can expect this demo to start buying them.

In with the new out with the old I guess?

Attention ad agencys. There is a demo you have overlooked. 50+. Lots of us have paid for homes. So we have low overhead. A lot of us have money in the bank. And low expenses, because our kids have become adults. Lots of us still have jobs or investments that we get income from. We have money to spend. Yet you Ignore us. The over 50 crowd has over 1/2 of the liquid wealth. But give us a reason to spend it. We don't get excited about spending money on dipers, scooters or pills. You can do better.

>>Attention ad agencys. There is a demo you have overlooked. 50+. Lots of us have paid for homes. So we have low overhead. A lot of us have money in the bank. And low expenses, because our kids have become adults. Lots of us still have jobs or investments that we get income from. We have money to spend. Yet you Ignore us. <<

50+ demos haven't been ignored. Agencies have found in study after study that the 50+ demo is the LEAST influenced by advertising when they're ready to spend all that moolah. And that's why they don't cater to the greybeards.

Being a part of the 50+ club I can tell you that ads have very little effect on what I spend my money on.

LIke I said, GIVE US A REASON TO SPEND. And don't talk down to us. Example.The new flat screen T.V.s. When I found out I could SEE the picture a lot better than the old T.V., I became interested in buying one. If the agencys would know the market, they would do better.

It isn't the agencies. It's Procter & Gamble and the like.

To add to what Stevethedj says...

One problem with advertising to the 50+ demo in the current state of radio is that you have entry level sales reps in their 20's trying to write copy that they think might influence a greybeard...

Since that will never work they apparently just give up on the entire demo.

>>One problem with advertising to the 50+ demo in the current state of radio is that you have entry level sales reps in their 20's trying to write copy that they think might influence a greybeard...

Since that will never work they apparently just give up on the entire demo.<<

Re-read my post above. It isn't entry level sales reps - it's Madison Avenue that has researched reaching the 50+ demo.

Re-read my posts. Madison Avenue Hasen't TRIED TO REACH MY DEMO. A perfect example of HOW NOT to sell to the 50+ Demo. Those reverse mortgage spots. Need I say more.

One thing I've not heard mention of is how society is changing and how that impacts the traditional demographic models.

Perhaps the 50 somethings of the past were resistant, but that may not hold true today.

I know a LOT of 50 somethings that do respond to ADs, because they are living younger than they used to.

50 somethings today, run businesses, use the Internet, carry around iPods, own computers, home theaters, go skiing...

Sounds quite a bit more like 30 somethings doesn't it?

I do a lot of sales along with the other services I perform. I can sell to a 50 year old. I know they like the radio. What gives?

Right on, kskd! You ask, "What gives?"

Creativity.

No, actually, add "marketing" to the mix as well.

When I worked for Gary Capps at KGRL/KXIQ in Bend, the jocks wrote and produced the commercial copy in cooperation with the salesperson on the accounts. And in a small market, you have LOTS of local accounts...and not all that many agency buys. Gary drilled into us the idea of selling the features and benefits of the sponsor's product in a creative fashion, and AVOIDING CLICHES at all costs. And this was OVER 30 YEARS AGO! Now, fast-forward to less than two weeks ago... One night while I was doing some chores after dinner, I heard a TV spot use the phrase, "Buy now and save!" Even this far removed from the lesson, my alarm bells went off...CLICHE! Who the hell wrote THAT copy, and how much money did they steal for it?

In the past year I've heard several creative ads on the air that were VERY entertaining, and made me laugh...but do you think I can remember the product they were pitching?

Nope.

They spent too much time on the scenario to get your attention, and ran out of time to make the PRODUCT memorable too!

Based on a lot of ads I hear on the radio and see on TV today, the younger so-called "experts" in sales and marketing are too danged lazy and totally miss their target as a result. It's junk...and I mentally tune it out...FAIL!

As a proud resident of the 55+ crowd now, I don't "count" anymore as a consumer (or so the present line of "research" goes...I'll give you first-hand knowledge that THAT'S CRAP!)... Yes, I've been around the bend a few times...but show me how a product can be a benefit to me and provide ROI on my purchase and you'll have my attention!

ANY consumer is looking for a better product or a way to save money, especially in times like these...You'd be foolish NOT to.

Mark...

Preceding you by just a few months in Bend, I also recall the 'buy now and save' lesson, which seemed to lead just about every spot produced at KBND (I forget the guy's name, but the PD at KBND back then put his name on everything, even the signoff).

Some of the lessons I learned at KGRL/KXIQ about writing effective radio ad copy have stayed with me through decades of writing (hopefully) effective news copy.

The chief lesson: Who needs this product/service/story? Identify that person and write directly to him/her.

Thanks, Gary (and Ben Tracy!)

I would certainly agree that there is no shortage of bad, trite, poorly written ads out there. I am not sure that's the fundamental problem.

I think it's targeting. I keep asking myself how those in charge of the advertising business can ignore the population bulge called "baby boomers"? This is the group born between 1945 and 1964.

The "boomers" have had a profound influence on most every facet of our society for the last 40 years. With the leading edge of the boomers headed for retirement age, with more spending power and more desire to stay young and "plugged in" than any generation preceeding them, you'd think the boomers would be sought out and targeted rather than ignored.

Unfortunately, that still doesn't seem to be the case.....yet.


I am sure there is a ton of "research" that says things like "those over the age of 55, no longer are in the stage of their life where they are aquiring things and thus are not the best target for a message to sell them a product or service." This research becomes the reason the 55+ demo is mostly ignored.

I am hoping that, like in the past, the boomer generation will defy conventional thinking and "research" again and get noticed for the intelligent, good-looking, free-spending group we have always been. This would then cause a torrent of ads targeting boomers and enriching those in the ad community and media with the good sense to create and broadcast those ads.


Wait a minute..... is this what they mean when they say..."be careful what you wish for because you might get it"?

Probably, but I still believe the ad industry is bright enough to see this opportunity and take advantage, just give them a bit more time.

ok, talk amongst yourselves.

>>I am sure there is a ton of "research" that says things like "those over the age of 55, no longer are in the stage of their life where they are aquiring things and thus are not the best target for a message to sell them a product or service." This research becomes the reason the 55+ demo is mostly ignored. <<

Wrong.

Ad agencies have done research and found the 50+ demo has a lot of money to spend and does spend it - and the same research found the demo is LEAST influenced by advertising when they spend that money.

THAT'S why the demo is ignored.

"Ad agencies have done research and found the 50+ demo has a lot of money to spend and does spend it - and the same research found the demo is LEAST influenced by advertising when they spend that money.

THAT'S why the demo is ignored."


Two things:
First, if the advertising is being ignored, then the ads are flawed. The message is not targeted properly, the message is simply not compelling or both.

Second, this demo does not wish to be ignored. It has never been ignored and will not be ignored now.

My point was that when someone engages this demo correctly, they will be rewarded.

"but show me how a product can be a benefit to me and provide ROI on my purchase and you'll have my attention! " --Mark Andrews, proud 50 something.

(we all get there man)

That's the magic sauce right there. It works. It works nearly every time. If you can identify a pain as well, you nail it for double bonus points!

I'm gonna call this a case of the industry making it's own reality. 50 somethings ignore the ADs because they are just crap, but everybody knows we've got the best ADs in the world, so it must be the 50 somethings. Old, crotchety, slow, they just won't respond.

Could it be that 50 is a time where ones life experience kind of adds up? A 50 something looks back at the whole thing and realizes that time is now shorter, so they don't fuck around?

As a 40 something, I'm feeling that more than I did as a 30 something.

I think I'm a bit wiser too. Probably will be a lot wiser in 10 more years.

I listen to the snake oil they pitch on the radio, or THAT LOUD AD ON FM WITH THE ANNOYING MUSIC AND THAT GUY THAT JUST PUNCHES THROUGH, and of course I ignore that.

The older I get the more I'll ignore it.

Loved the ODS ads though. Just FYI. (whoever realized those missed a GOLDEN, freaking GOLDEN, opportunity to weave a story over time with those two characters. Could have had people listening each week to find out how their relationship goes, all the while being reminded, not without ODS. One message a week, what the investment is, what the return is, mixed in with the fun little power struggle drama.)

ROI and some theme or link to a useful movement can be done with short ADs. Branding can be done too, and 50 somethings do recognize new brands. Most of the people I work with are 50 somethings and they pick up on new stuff.

And they are better at it than many half their age. (becuase they know something good when they see it because they've had time to figure that stuff out)

Most 50 somethings I know like selecting products. They are good at it. Why? Because they have selected their share of crap, and know better!! LOL!!!

I swear, like I wrote on another thread, maybe some time with the antropologists would be time well spent. They know how people work, not how tech works.

You can't apply tech, unless you really grok the people. Just a safety tip. And I gotta say, I was schooled on that by a freaking insurance salesman, with a bit of free time for idle conversation! That guy changed my life, and I don't think he even knows it. (Thanks Joel)

Also seems to me, in a time when younger mind share is draining away faster than the medium can grow, making the most of the more solid listeners makes perfect sense, if for nothing but to sock a bit a way to innovate with.

(because the need to innovate is here, right now and not going away)

Being the least impacted means they are still impacted! It does not mean they won't be impacted, and that opens the door to improve that impact. Nobody has ever made the case that said impact can't be improved.

Did I miss a day in school somewhere? Is that not still on the table?

In my line of work, we sell stuff. Our sales are not easy, and times are tough, and we sell tech. Double whammy right now too. We don't leave potential business on the table.

Ignoring a demo with dollars, a demonstrated willingness to part with them, and one that IS impacted by ADs is foolish. If times are tough, you circle the wagons around those spending money that are connected to you. You do the work to make them happy, and you double down on efforts to get new business.

I know the usual risk reward equation indicates that the tougher sells are best ignored because the returns are smaller.

What's the risk, if you are out on the street picking your nose?

Thought so.

Somebody somewhere just doesn't really want to get after it. That's all this is.

I know if I do that, I'm on the street. Lots of radio people on the street. Connection here?

-->I'm only bothering to post because, frankly I miss my radio people. Need more of them.

First they should hire copy writers who are over 50. So they can relate to the audiance. And of course listen to them. I'm tired of some kid telling me what's best for me. I will say it again...GIVE ME A GOOD REASON TO BUY YOUR STUFF.

Or, just hire an actual copy writer(s)! But that's probably asking too much. Better just let the salesman attempt to write it.

"just let the salesman attempt to write it."

(note from the PC Police) There are no salesmen anymore. Only Sellers.


I agree with your conclusion about hiring a real copywriter. I stopped writing spots for clients when I realized I had a far better chance for them to renew if their ad campaign actually worked. And, the campaign had a far better chance to be successful if a professional copywriter wrote the spot.

I thought that we had gone through this topic before and the answer to why advertising ignores people over 50 is as follows: People over 50 have developed brand loyalties that are difficult to break with advertising pitches. Furthermore, most people who reach 50 have seen enough BS and flash-in-the-pan products that they are much more skeptical of product marketing than their younger counterparts.

Which is why the ROI pitch is so vital. If the product features work as advertized, and those features present a viable and appealing return, they will consider buying.

So it's less about branding and more about differentiation.

Eugenebob writes:

"...they’re the one with the money, well their husbands money anyways....most women are great spenders of money that they didn’t earn (just ask my ex wife!) , and everything was great- until , well the economy collapsed and their husband was laid off, and no more money was coming in.

Jesus. A more sexist post I haven't read in a long time...just more proof of the overwhelming bias still prevalent in this industry.

I am a 40+ woman, and I gotta tell you, I know damn few women who don't work, and who don't earn their own money. By the way...if the women who opt to stay at home with the kids were paid what they are worth, the men in their lives would never be able to afford them.

Eugenebob, you and your friend need to learn a little about marketing to women in the 21st century.

I'm with Radiodawgz!

I am a 30+ woman who has never been married, always worked, and my credit is great!
My income has increased over the years, so if the ads aren't working, it's not because I don't have any buying power.

OK, let's admit it. Madison Ave gave up on 50-year-olds because most of their clients are pushing products which don't measure up to the hype, or are all image/no substance, leaving only young people to bamboozle. That's why they can't break the brand-loyalty chains...because the new products are no better than the old.

If you created a medium for 50+ listeners, where would you find enough "real" products to fill the avails?

Guess I won't be " Kissing and telling" with Michelle any time soon.
Michelle, ( yes "radiodawgs", I know who you are, and you're very talented) the logic isn't sexist at all. My friend is fairly high up the chain on Madison Ave. He's admittedly no Don Draper though! Radio/TV stations want to go after the demo who has "control" of the money and would spend it. The married woman, between 25-54 is the MOST likely to be a non working "soccer mom", and have access to their husbands account. It's simple, really- if you earn a $100, you probably are much more apt to not want to spend it. If someone GIVES you a $100, spending is much easier. The 25-54 female demo has the highest percentage of what I just described, and it's also proven that they are "spur of the moment" and " binge" spenders. It made sense to go after this demographic before. However, with the downfall of the economy, and middle America in deep, deep trouble, the synopsis - at least from my friend, is that it might be time to start going toward a different demo, who has money.

Also, this wasn’t an attack on females, or working/ independent females. It’s also a proven fact that those who work/ are independent spend MORE time watching 24 hours news channels, and listening to talk radio/ NPR- and less time watching “ Dancing with the stars” or are waiting with baited breath to hear on the radio what Lindsay Lohan is wearing to her birthday party. I don’t remember the last time the E! Channel ( a 25-54 female targeted network) reported any real news, or financial information. After watching it for a few minutes, I observed a bunch of mindless celebrity chatter, and the following commercials: Zales Diamond Company, Victoria Secret , Toys R US, and Nichole Kidman’s new fragrance.

No offense was meant.

Now it’s time to de ice/ dig the car out of the snow

Radiodawgz: Thank you. Your 8:44pm post nailed it. I didn't go first to avoid being the one who always jumps on the sexist, the racist, and the just plain dumb.

Eugenebob: Do you have a credible (published) source for your assertions such as: women 25-54 are the "spur of the moment" and "binge" spenders; that women 25-54 are the most likely to be non-working (I think you'll find that they are one of the most likely demos to BE working!) And for *Z$Z#&@ sake - you don't have to work to be independent, nor do you have to be independent to work. With your incredible attitude toward women, I'm not at all surprised you have an ex-wife, I'm just surprised you ever had a wife to begin with. Offense taken!

Thanks for the support TDanner - I always look for your knowledgeable posts on ANY topic, and it's good to hear from you on this.

Thanks EugeneBob for the props, I don't mind being "outed", btw. I'll stand by my opinions no matter what name I post under, I just happen to like "radiodawgz" which is why I use it, and it tends to deflect personal attacks.

Like Tdanner, I still take exception to your original contention, especially since you did not differentiate in your first post - you simply said "most women". And also like TDanner, I'd like to see what published proof you (or the industry professional you cite) have of your assertions.

Nothing personal, but those opinions and "facts" you have mentioned are offensive, even if you yourself are a decent guy.

"You seem a decent fellow...I hate to kill you."

--Inigo Montoya-The Princess Bride

I would say it's more like, "25-54 Women" is a top demo because women control the spending in most households and I don't see that ever changing. Why should it?

Hello again Radiodawgs.

I didn't mean to " out" you. I thought everyone knew who you were already.

I was in Alaska visiting my daughter the past couple weeks, and internet access was NON existent! It took some getting used to, but now I'm back to technology. That's why it took me this long to post back.

I have lots of facts, but none are published in the trades that I can post a link too. It comes from converstions I have had with several high ranking people in various parts of the industy. But trust me, it won't be too long until that happens. The drastic unemployment numbers simply mean that the targeted 25-54 year old wife who relies on her husbands income, and pays the bills + controls the mnoney, doesn't have money to throw around anymore. And it might be years before the economy rebounds so they can. Just a fact of life. That, combined with the PPM will soon be taking over is going to totally change the industry. In order for station's to survive, they have to maintain high ratings of the target demo. When a certain demo doesn't have/ doesn't spend money, advertisers don't buy from that station, plain and simple.

Now let's talk sexism in the indsutry . Go check out allaccess.com. I can't tell you how many job postings I see that say " females STRONGLY encourage to apply". This is code for " if you're a guy, we won't hire you". Tell you what, I challenge you to find ONE ad that says:
" MALES strongly encouraged to apply". You won't find one.
Sexism in the indstustry? You bet, there is BLANTANT sexism, towards males in a lot of jobs.
Case in point from allacess TODAY:
_________________________________________________
Hot 96 Evansville / Female Morning Co-Host
We are a 100,000 Watt Heritage CHR with the resources to win. We've almost completed our nation wide search for a new female partner for the Atom Smasher Morning Show.

This is a last call for mp3's and resumes.

If you are a strong female communicator that can deliver 18-24, 18-34 lifestyle and content, please send a short demo and resume to Jason Addams, Program DIrector, Hot 96.

Send your email to: LookingForAStar@Hot96.com

South Central Media is an EOE.
_________________________________________________

My favorite part is when they say that they are an EEO. BS!


Once again, this is not a hostle debate. I am not sexist, and have no need to defend myself. I'm just not telling everyone what they want to hear, and I am being heckled for it to make those who are doing it feel better. The economy is BAD, and it's not going to get better for a while. It is going to bring the industry to it's knees in many parts of the country; unless the industry adapts. The old mentality simply won't work.

Merry late Christmas.

Bob

Agencies invest millions targeting 50+ adults. We tend to spend those dollars on media that deal efficiently with that particular group. Radio and TV both have shrinking audiences not only with 50+ but in total. Perhaps when programs are created to attract that demographic the investment in broadcast will increase?

Perhaps Eugenebob's highly placed friends ought to check out the Bureau of Labor Statistics and employment figures for the U.S.

Topline:

Persons 16+ Employed
73.2% of Males
59.3% of Females

Persons 25-54 Employed
90.9% of Males (4/5 are full time)
75.4% of Females (3/4 are full time)

Married Households
19.8% Husband only
6.6% Wife Only
51.8% Both Husband and Wife
16.2% Neither work
5.6% Other situation

Since the percentage of married households has dropped to 58 million households in US - it should be noted that Unmarried-Female-Head-of-Household homes have much higher employment rates than do the Unmarried Male Head of Household rates.

No advertiser is targeting your so-called "wife who relies on her husband's income" -- they're about as rare as the spotted owl and the snail darter -- endangered species.

If you can get your bitter and misguided chauvenist attitudes off your back, you might want to join the approaching equally employed reality of the 21st century.

I neglected to mention in my comments that, to the best of my knowledge, 25-54 women has maintained its second most requested rank for many years.

Another irony of the 50+ debate is that while overall listenership/viewership is declining, the rate of decline is far less will any demographic that includes 45+.

I assume that the most requested demo/ranker is still Persons 25-54?

And overall listenership/viewership declines are slowest in the 45+ demo due primarily to the 75+ demo and the 65+ demo (both much harder to pull from Arb standard reports) because the older you are the less likely you are to be 1) timeshifting programs, 2) watching TV on line on demand, 3) listening to a portable entertainment device, 4) playing video games or wii etc. etc. etc. etc.

Tdanner, yes, in our office 25-54 persons still top request, followed by women 25-54 then persons 18-49.

We place a good deal of older buys on cable, Internet, and print then on broadcast based on how appropriate the cost per unit. Broadcast tends to bonus with promotional airtime or appearance schedules more regularly to make the buy more attractive. We have received as much as 50% of a placed schedule as promotional. Probably not telling you anything you don't know.

Isn't it something like: A25-54, W25-54, A18-49, W18-49, M25-54 followed by everything else?

Eugenebob said:

"Now let's talk sexism in the industry. I can't tell you how many job postings I see that say " females STRONGLY encourage to apply". Sexism in the industry? You bet, there is BLANTANT sexism, towards males in a lot of jobs.

Just one thing to say about that: Factor out the morning show co-host/gigglebox ads and see how many you have left specifically targeting women applicants. Yeah, there's sexism, all right...but not in the way you mentioned.

But honestly, I just feel crappy all around for the many talented people in our industry - male and female - who are out of work these days.

...."I just feel crappy all around for the many talented people in our industry - male and female - who are out of work these days"....

AAAAAAA-MEN!

All this talk makes you wonder how AARP manages to pay its bills. Check out one of their magazines look at the ads.