Arlen Specter to switch parties!

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Author: Vitalogy
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 9:34 am
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30456741/

Political philosophy more in line with Democrats than Republicans, he says.

Author: Andrew2
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 9:41 am
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And once Norm Coleman finally loses in court, say in the fall of 2010, Al Franken may be able to take his Senate seat to give Democrats a filibuster-proof majority for a couple of weeks.

Author: Amus
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 10:24 am
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Assuming everyone votes along party lines.

Author: Aok
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 12:06 pm
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It just goes to show the republicans have to start doing things differently.

Author: Deane_johnson
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 12:23 pm
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Arlen Spector is not a Republican. He has been a liberal for years.

The reason he is switching parties is that he came to realize he was going to get beaten in the Republican primary because he isn't Republican.

He is hopeful he can get the nomination in the Democrat primary and at least get to the general election.

This is about political survival, not idealism.

Author: Listenerpete
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 12:53 pm
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I mostly agree with you Deane, the switch is about political survival more than anything else. However, whether he is a Republican or not is debatable. He certainly is not a hard line conservative and there lies his problem, he would be beaten in the Republic primary by the conservative Pat Toomey.

Author: Edselehr
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 1:04 pm
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Specter would have to do some political gymnastics to win in a Republican primary, then swing over to try and win the general in a Pennsylvania that has swung much more Democratic in the last couple election cycles. Sure, you could (accurately) call it political maneuvering. But, you could also see it as a state's representative aligning his party affiliation with his own beliefs and those of his constituents. Aren't we supposed to want our elected representatives to speak for us?

Author: Andrew2
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 1:19 pm
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Deane_johnson writes: Arlen Spector is not a Republican. He has been a liberal for years.

Of course, there was a time when liberals were not shunned by the Republican Party and some Republicans were openly called "liberal." Specter is one of the last remaining Republicans left from that era. What you're really saying is: liberals (or non-arch-conservatives) are no longer welcome in the Republican party. Will Olympia Snow be the next to bolt?

Author: Vitalogy
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 1:40 pm
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I've never been a huge Specter fan, but I admire his guts to change party. And, he's hardly liberal. As Andrew said, he's from a bygone era where Republicans could be indendent on a few things rather than be hard line neocons.

This is a numbers game and someone at GOP headquarters needs to take statisics 101.

No matter how you spin it, it's a very BAD sign for the GOP moving forward.

Author: Andrew2
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 1:52 pm
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Nah, if Specter really had guts, he would have jumped ship a long time ago, at the height of conservative power, not when changing parties was required for his political survival. Now he looks merely like an opportunist, I'm afraid to say.

Author: Amus
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 1:58 pm
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Watching the right wing blogs, many are saying good riddance, he's a RINO anyway.

So it appears that the Republican Party is going through a purification process that will insure that they continure to lose elections for years to come.

Author: Skeptical
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 4:03 pm
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40 years is a nice round number.

Author: Jeffreykopp
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 4:15 pm
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Wayne Morse changed parties.

He *hated* Richard Nixon.

Author: Skeptical
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 4:18 pm
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When did he do this? In the 50's?

Author: Jeffreykopp
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 4:55 pm
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He became an independent in 1952, and Democrat in 1955.

Author: Brianl
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 6:35 pm
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Sen. Specter said, "Since my election in 1980, as part of the Reagan Big Tent, the Republican Party has moved far to the right. Last year, more than 200,000 Republicans in Pennsylvania changed their registration to become Democrats. I now find my political philosophy more in line with Democrats than Republicans."

I totally agree with you Deane in that he did it to save his own political ass against someone more conservative. Makes perfect sense.

At the same time, Specter is dead-on right in saying, "Since my election in 1980, as part of the Reagan Big Tent, the Republican Party has moved far to the right." You can't ignore the fact that 200,000 Pennsylvanians have switched party allegiances, and he is representing the people that voted him into office.

All the more proof that the GOP really needs to look in the mirror, and make some drastic changes if they want to become more than the "minority party", if they want to once again become relevant. This marks the first time that the Democrats have had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate since the early FDR years.

That, folks, is not something to ignore. The will of the people, and the backlash over the last eight years, is there for all the world to see.

Author: Magic_eye
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 7:32 pm
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"I am staying a Republican because I think I have an important role, a more important role, to play there. The United States very desperately needs a two-party system. That's the basis of politics in America. I'm afraid we are becoming a one-party system... I think as a governmental matter, it is very important to have a check and balance." - Sen. Arlen Specter, 3/17/09

Good riddance.

Author: Trixter
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 7:38 pm
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Like when Liberman left the Dems and went Republican/Independent....

C YA!

Author: Roger
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 7:46 pm
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My only issue is that Anyone who switches while sitting is abandoning those who voted them in.

I have NO problem with an actual switch by anyone from any party, however not mid way thru a term. Serve your term in your party, come re-election time, declare your intentions and run with your choice of parties and let the voters decide your fate. Only recourse now would be a recall election which is too time consuming and too expensive, as well as disruptive.

this action comes across as jumping on the bandwagon...... Does his switch come with promises? His comment ....."I now find my political philosophy more in line with Democrats than Republicans....." is fine but ultimately he is there to vote the interests of HIS constituents, NOT his personal philosophy. All the more reason to finish his term representing the people who voted him in. Now if he says "come re-election time I will run as a democrat", then I would be fine with that.

:-{> (nifty new mustache and goatee!)

just my thoughts, doesn't change anything.

Author: Skeptical
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 9:59 pm
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Try voting. That'll help change things. :-)



I'll give the Republicans one thing -- they've outdone the Democrats in the spectacular party implosion category.

Author: Missing_kskd
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 10:20 pm
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Hey Roger, what about all those ex-republicans?

National Republican self-identification numbers are in the 20's.

Seems to me he's serving those people nicely enough. Could be half his base!

Author: Deane_johnson
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 3:51 am
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This is about political survival, nothing else. Spector was running 2 to 1 behind his opposition in the Republican primary. It was over for him. This is a desperate attempt to remain in office, nothing more.

All of the statements he has made are nothing more than trying to cover his tracks.

Author: Missing_kskd
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 6:40 am
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...and even doing that, he's still serving all those ex-republicans!

Author: Roger
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 7:27 am
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1. I vote, sometimes three or four times!

2. Thread happens to exist because of the Specter "DEFECTION". My comments were no about him particularly, but directed at ANYONE switching affiliations mid term. In regards to Specter particularly, he was more than happy to use Prez Boosh and PA rightie Rick Santorum to help eke out a close win in 2004. Going to go with the same photo op in 2010? This isn't about him doing a better job representing his constiutency as a DEM. This is about him jumping on the Obama train to try and save his political lifestyle. Like so many others, he is in Washington looking out for HIS best interests.

Hey Ho he's got to go... Doesn't matter whether the people in his district prefer a Limbaugh mouthpiece, a Maddow clone, or something in between. It's time to continue the theme of change and go with someone new.

Author: Missing_kskd
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 7:43 am
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But it's not possible to just generalize this.

If you look at what the voters did, and what Specter did, there is a nice alignment there.

Sure, he's covering his political ass. Who wouldn't?

I'm ok with that, given a slice of the table goes my way. This year, that means SINGLE PAY HEALTH CARE. That's the nut to crack.

If he switches, and that helps it happen, great! Love the guy. Happy fun!

If not, then we try again next year, and the next...

They are there to do stuff we need done. What they do with that isn't really something I'm gonna worry about, unless it's criminal.

This isn't criminal, so then either it can be leveraged or it cannot.

From our perspective, we need to bring the hammer of potentially losing that seat, so stuff can get done.

If it were me, I would be prepping a Dem challenger to Specter, and let him know whether or not that guy runs, depends on just how much of a Democrat he is willing to be.

Wash, rinse, repeat for the rest of them.

Primary politics are the best weapon we have right now.

Author: Listenerpete
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 7:47 am
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This is about political survival, nothing else. Spector was running 2 to 1 behind his opposition in the Republican primary. It was over for him. This is a desperate attempt to remain in office, nothing more.

He sounds like a politician to me. What's different with Specter? The fact remains that in Pennsylvania Democrats vastly out number Republicans. The Republicans better nominate somebody more moderate than Toomey if they hope to win in 2010.

All of the statements he has made are nothing more than trying to cover his tracks.

It seems to me he has been quite open why he swithched. He would lose and doesn't want to be part of the Whigs. :-)

Author: Deane_johnson
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 7:54 am
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"It seems to me he has been quite open why he swithched."

No he hasn't. But the less astute tend to believe what he says on the surface.

We aren't going to be able to call him Spector the Defector after all. Only Spector the try to be a survivor dude.

Author: Missing_kskd
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 7:58 am
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All that matters is how he votes.

That will tell all.

I don't care WHY he votes, only that he votes in our best interests --and that those votes align with what I see as the best interests.

You all are in the same boat.

He's gettin old! It would be nice to be remembered for helping something great, LIKE SINGLE PAY HEALTH CARE. You know he's thinking, "do I jump ship and play ball with the winners or bow to Limbaugh and know the 23 percenters love me".

No contest.

He's going to step into the winners circle and go out on a high. Nothing wrong with that.

Author: Brianl
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 8:12 am
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Specter often voted against the GOP rank and file when he was a staunch Republican. It's not like he's going to be a Democratic pawn, sheeple in the Senate if you will, he will probably continue to vote his conscience, and not what one side or the other dictates.

Author: Chris_taylor
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 8:16 am
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This from the National Jewish Democratic Council.

http://www.njdc.org/media/entry/specter_switch

Author: Roger
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 8:23 am
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....our best interests.....

..I see as the best interests...

and THOSE COMMENTS are the underlying issues.

Kind of contradictory as well.

Maybe we have similiar "our interests", and differ on the "I SEE AS BEST" interests.

The second is what leads to thread after thread of name calling, rhetoric spitting, inflexibility.
And on a national level, a polarization.

Maybe we solve the OUR issues, and just take the others off the table because their debate or passage is too divisive...

You like to throw out the term 23 percenter quite often, like it is a solid lock step group. As such you find them distateful. Yet are perfectly fine allowing other "RADICAL" Groups the flexibility to "be" I say your "23 Percenters" are entitled to the same space as "the militant heathen, ethnic, lesbian, vegetarian, abortionists"

Live and let live... can't pass judgement on one and give a pass to the other. might not agree with part or all of either, but you have to give them the right to exist.

Author: Listenerpete
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 9:28 am
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I said: It seems to me he has been quite open why he swithched."

Deane said: No he hasn't. But the less astute tend to believe what he says on the surface.

What has he said that is wrong in your opinion?

Author: Missing_kskd
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 10:21 am
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Roger, No.

Really.

The 23 percenters I refer to, generally entertain discrimination, and have no regard for core, human equality.

Being militant, lesbian, vegetarian, etc... is a different thing.

Discrimination is wrong, when it's done over things we do not have control of.

Bigots NEVER have the high ground, ever. If somebody is a bigot, they have a character problem, period, end of story.

Same thing for theocrats. We have freedom of religion here. That means you get to be a non-believer, hindu, catholic, christian, muslim, buddist, whatever, and that is PERFECTLY OK.

We make our laws through rational deliberation, where faith contributes as a guide, not any kind of absolute. We don't have clerics here, intrepeting the law, as in the divine law, for us. We have courts, where we post up the arguments and our peers sort it out and we live by that.

THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DISTASTEFUL. Why do you think the core of the Republican party is in the South right now? Because NOBODY ELSE will take those fuckers, that's why!

Republicans have essentially recruited everybody with some chip on their shoulder, promised them some satisfaction, and got the votes. Now that didn't pan out, we've got those people PISSED proper, with nowhere to go.

And they know it, and are hammering anybody who doesn't align with whatever it is they've got eating at them.

Of course we differ on "I SEE AS BEST!" That's why we vote. No harm, no foul there.

Currently, what I THINK IS BEST, ALIGNS VERY WELL WITH THE WINNING VOTE. That is just how it is. I'm sure that will change, but it's not changing right now, is it?

Bottom line is the 23 percenters I refer to are those people with core character issues. They are bigots, theocrats, sexists, racists.

THEY ARE THE MAJORITY REPUBLICAN BASE RIGHT NOW.

Note the POLLS where about 20 PERCENT of us self-identify as REPUBLICAN!

There they are man! They gather around Limbaugh, and are just pounding the drums hard.

That is what the Tea Parties were about! For them to see any progress on their issues, they've got to some how convert other kinds of anger into something they can leverage into some power.

Now, one layer up you find vegitarians and such. It's possible to be a vegetarian bigot, for example.

This is why we don't compare those things on the same level.

And lesbian is something like color, race, etc... no choice there. Another level still.

People CHOOSE to be BIGOTS. They don't choose to be lesbian.

Finally, being a vegetarian isn't a bad thing! Being a BIGOT IS ALWAYS A BAD THING.

Really, they are a group. There are sects, where some are big time theocrats, others are bigots or racists. There are a few that are just stupid too.

However, as a bloc, they ARE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY RIGHT NOW.

Don't believe me?

Just watch them chew up Steele and spit him out proper. Won't take long either. He's not one of the fold, and he's not hard core, go to the mat committed either. Steele somehow thinks that he can add solid people to the Republican party, keep these fuckers, and build a winning team.

It ain't gonna happen.

It's not gonna happen because of that bloc. The 23 percenters got a taste of power, saw some motion their way. Because they have core character issues, and they are not in a state where they could reconsider them, like most healthy, ordinary people are, they are going to FIGHT LIKE HELL.

I personally hope they do. Right now, concentrated like they are, it's really, really easy to point to them and that tells all.

Meaning, for those of us interested in moving on, we have a sane discussion about it, leaving them to pound their marginalized drums!

Frankly, it's a lot harder to deal with these people, when they are well distributed, like they used to be, before Nixon began roping them into Republicans.

Say what you want, but the lefty Democratic base has it's issues. Corporate, etc... However, there exists NO faction of the party that is like the 23 percenters.

Specter sees this. He can just join the big tent, which is basically everybody but for a lot of the very wealthy, and the 23 percenters and get some stuff done.

No brainer.

Author: Deane_johnson
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 10:21 am
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"What has he said that is wrong in your opinion?"

The reason he gave for switching parties.

Author: Andrew2
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 11:18 am
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Deane, it's that once-a-year time again...

Author: Vitalogy
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 11:21 am
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The reason he gave is correct: The GOP is no longer moderate, and Specter is a moderate. This should be a warning sign to the GOP but instead they are trying to spin this the best they can by villianizing Specter.

Author: Andrew2
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 11:33 am
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Right, but the GOP hasn't been moderate for at least a decade. The 1994 mid-term elections are probably the most likely time you can draw a line and say the Republican party was completely taken over by conservatives - but Reagan's 1980 win may have been another. For Arlen Specter to claim he suddenly realized the Republican party was hostile to moderates - as if it hadn't been for decades - is impossible for me to believe. Nor do I believe he would have switched now if his re-election as a Republican in 2010 had been assured.

Politicians by definition are politically opportunistic and survivalists, and Specter is no exception - no better or worse than the average politician. Of course he has a reason for switching now - they always do.

In the short term Democrats get another Senate vote, but in the long view, I wonder if this isn't a mistake. If Specter had lost his primary to an extreme right-winger, it may have been an opportunity to elect another true Democrat who might be around for a while, not a turncoat who is getting up in age and may not run again after 2010. By 2016, that Senate seat may be up for grabs and go to a Republican.

Author: Broadway
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 11:46 am
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The guy is a opportunistic selfish backdoor political hack. He has been rarely "right" on many issues. Getting rid of the dead wood.

Boy those are harsh words...and coming from me?
Actually Specter...gotta love ya.

Author: Roger
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 12:34 pm
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....there exists NO faction of the party that is like the 23 percenters.... easy to villify once labeled as racist bigots more so if they are all Rs. unfortunately plenty of racist bigots mark the D box as well.

Oh there most certainly is. There is indeed a percentage of people who identify as democrats who are so hard left they would have been at home in Mao's China. As you identify Rush as the image of the 23 percenters. I would say Sean Penn would be an example of a hard lefty. You certainly could make a case for Rev wright as well. Hell he could be one you identify as a 23percenter except he's of color and not a republican. hence he has to go on the other side's team for balance....Overall though, you really can't put a name to all of them, it's the celebrities that stand out, and they set no policy. Boosh himself wasn't as hard right as portrayed or as some of the people he surrounded himself with. Obama, not as far left as advertised, nor as some of the people on HIS team. But, there is a dem equivalent of the 23 percenters with their own ideals.

I have a cousin or two that you would put in the 23R percenter category. I would as well. I have another cousin and an aunt who would fit nicely in the Dem version of the 23 percent club! I believe you can be a moderate Republican, just as you can be a moderate democrat. The R party is more than 23 percent. Just as the D party was more than the portrayals by th right. Nothing gets done when you pander to either edge. Give the Rs 23 percent hardliners and the Ds the same number hard left, and you still have 54 percent in the middle where things get done.

Over the time on the board I have read your posts, you seem to have drifted close to the hard left area. Polar opposite of the 23Rs you rail against. It's not a label and it's not a personal attack. Just a statement that you sometimes are as militant as those you despise... Kind of like if your dog craps in you neighbors yard, and then you get mad when he throws it back. Then you escalate to right the wrong, then up the ante when the problems continue to mushroom. Eventually the original problem is long forgotten and the situation is never resolved. the only glimmer of satisfaction is the brief time between retaliation and the next affront.

That is where we are in politics now. A brief smugness and a preparation of "payback time" by the victors.

I look back to the end of WWII when the gates of many prisons were opened and the guards laid down their weapons... while it did occur, there was surprisingly little retaliation by the abused. Of those that did "get even" there was no satisfaction by most. The most common thought was to put it behind and get on with their lives. Some even went back at a later time to exorcise their personal demons. In most cases Captor/Captive Victor/Vanquished found a common ground and in some cases friendship, but mostly understanding.

You whip the froth of anger and hatred when you can identify your opponent as less human... "Those dirty Japs" and the caractures of the axis leaders, the marching, armed SS skeletons, the "ARAB TERRORISTS" with their WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, the SUICIDE CAR BOMBERS and all the other labels are meant to be nothing more than dehumanizing descriptions making it easier to hate your opponent.

So, do we dig the hole and throw in ALL the 23 percenters? Do we just throw in the 23 percent on the right, or should we throw in a few hard lefties too, just to give the illusion that we are being fair?


When I first ventured to this side of the board I had reservations with joining in because it was such a polarized scene. Certainly spirited and deep at times, entertaining and thought provoking. I try really hard to play nice, and totally avoid some who just can't....

Unfortunately while we are all here contributing to a wonderful model railroad set, up, some insist that all users of N gauge are morons, whilst those insisting on using prepainted figures an O gauge are sure it's those damn N gaugers who are the morons and holding up the works. I appreciate the time, effort and contributions by all,

this really is a microcosim of the country as a whole. The left side is more united and vocal. The right, insistant, but not focused and is spending time defending rather than making points. Fewer still are the flexibles, who pop up from time to time. Some more than others.

Well, carry on. I believe there was a spirited undercard match of DEANE vs THE REST OF THE WORLD before I interrupted.

Author: Deane_johnson
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 12:45 pm
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"The reason he gave is correct: The GOP is no longer moderate, and Specter is a moderate. This should be a warning sign to the GOP but instead they are trying to spin this the best they can by villianizing Specter."


Well, the Democrat party is damn well not moderate. You can whip this around all you want, but he changed parties to try and save his career in the Senate. No other reason.

Vitalogy, I can just picture you driving down the road and when you see a Kool-Aid stand, your car automatically hits the brakes so you can guzzle some.

Author: Missing_kskd
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 12:50 pm
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Show me some Racist, Bigot Democrats.

They are pretty damn tough to find. I'm sure they exist. I'm also sure we've got NOBODY in the party that matters catering to them. They have to hide, or keep it quiet --on the down-low.

THEY ARE NOT A MAJORITY, and THEY HAVE ABOUT NO POWER. We sure as hell are not gonna run on an Anti campaign. Theocrats, bigots, racists and such are NOT ok, and they DON'T CALL THE SHOTS.

On the other hand... Look at who watches FOX news, and what party they are pulling for! Look at the Limbaugh listeners! The core of the Republican party, such as it is, IS THOSE PEOPLE!

They are PISSED because the party IS NOT HARD LINE ENOUGH. ANTI-GAY, ANTI-RELIGION, unless it's the one they are pimping, ANTI, ANTI, ANTI...

They are pounding the drums, right in the open, kicking ass and taking names. The ONLY Republican who hasn't bowed before Limbaugh is Specter! Go figure. No wonder he bagged on those clowns.

It's lie Like shooting fish in a barrel, by comparison.

Right now, the Limbaugh Republicans, like the ones you find at freerepublic.com, or redstate.com are the vocal core majority. They have the numbers, and they won't budge.

THEY ARE THE FREAKING PARTY RIGHT NOW AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT.

Then you have the other Republicans. Most of them left for Independent status, became Dems, or are just riding it out. Good people, worried about progressive stuff, and willing to look the other way, or just don't know the numbers well enough to know they are part of a pretty nasty bloc.

By any reasonable definition, those Limbaugh Republicans are a bloc. Until the Republicans get a leader, who can refute that crap, and who doesn't end up kissing Limbaugh's ass, the party IS the 23 percenters.

Heck, there are only 40 senators left at this point! At the mid-terms, anybody who isn't very well aligned with the hard-liners, is probably gonna be picked off, leaving a smaller, and more focused core. --A Limbaugh core.

Author: Missing_kskd
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 12:56 pm
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I really am a hard liner on some things. Hard ass lefty.

Discrimination is not ok.

Over exploitation of the people is not ok.

Government promotion of one religion over others is not ok.

Torture is not ok.

Executive power trumping all is not ok.

Go back and look at the earliest ones of mine you can find. It's there.

Wasn't ok then, isn't ok now, won't be ok in the future.

I've a problem with that "23 percent" of this nation that thinks somehow that those things are ok. And I'll go to the mat on it. Always stated I would.

Where it's not a core right issue, then it's all on the table! Let's see what works.

Make no mistake though. Those kind of people deserve NO power, and ALL the social pressure we can bring to bear.

I've never, ever been anything but up front about that. If that's rough, well...

it's just gonna have to be rough then.

There is no open minded treatment of bigots, racists, theocrats and others like them.

None.

Author: Listenerpete
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 12:57 pm
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The reason he gave for switching parties.

I think Specter was brutally honest when he said: "I am unwilling to have my 29-year Senate record judged by the Pennsylvania Republican primary electorate,"

Do you have a problem with that statement, Deane?

link

Author: Missing_kskd
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 12:58 pm
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I sure don't.

Author: Andrew2
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 12:59 pm
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Deane, there is much more room in the Democratic party for moderates than there is in the Republican party for moderates. For example, how many pro-choice Republicans are left? Meanwhile, the Democrats have a number of pro-life House and Senate members. Senate leader Harry Reid is pro-life. So is Bob Casey, who replaced Rick Santorum in 2007 in Pennsylvania.

Specter did leave at a politically opportune time for himself - but it's also true that the Republicans are turning into an extremist, shrinking minority party. They will not get back into power again until they start tolerating some different points of view - as the Democrats learned to do in 2006.

Author: Skybill
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 2:10 pm
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As long as he loses the next election all will be good. We'll just have to hope they don't screw up too much between now and then.

As Magic Eye stated above...Good Riddance.

The very last thing this country needs is a filibuster proof senate.

If that happens, then we might as well change the name from USA to USSA (United Socialist States of America).

We would be truly F&$@&d. And without Vaseline.

Author: Vitalogy
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 2:19 pm
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Actually, since the GOP is the Party of No, I'm not opposed to a filibuster proof senate. As it stands, they only stand for obstructing the agenda our elected officials were elected to enact.

Author: Deane_johnson
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 2:27 pm
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"Actually, since the GOP is the Party of No,"

Before the spending is done, you'll wish the GOP were in a position to say No.


"Do you have a problem with that statement, Deane?"

Not if it were the reason. It only suddenly became the reason when the polls showed him trailing two to one.

Author: Skybill
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 2:28 pm
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Well sure you wouldn't object.....now. Because your party is in power.

Turn the tables and you would be screaming bloody murder.

Personally, I don't think there should be a filibuster proof house at any time. No matter who is in power.

I think filibusters are like 3 year olds playing in the sand box. It boils down to the equivalent of someone sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "la la la la I can't hear you la la la la".

Author: Listenerpete
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 2:31 pm
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The very last thing this country needs is a filibuster proof senate.

The Dems are far from a filibuster proof Senate. The Democratic Party has a large tent. So depending on the issue, they will need coalitions to get things passed.

United Socialist States of America
Pure Hyperbole. Read the Preamble of the U.S. Constitution, nowhere does it say we are a strictly capitalist country. We are a mix of capitalism and socialism to make a 'more perfect union.'

Author: Listenerpete
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 2:43 pm
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Not if it were the reason. It only suddenly became the reason when the polls showed him trailing two to one.

So? How is that different what he said? The Republican party in PA has shrunk significantly leaving only far right wingers, so the moderate he is, Specter bolted the party. Not rocket science.

Author: Skeptical
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 3:05 pm
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I thank God every day for giving us the Mother of All Political Party Implosions.

Amen.

the whining babies left behind from the aftermath should just be ignored.

Author: Skybill
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 3:12 pm
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United Socialist States of America
Pure Hyperbole. Read the Preamble of the U.S. Constitution, nowhere does it say we are a strictly capitalist country. We are a mix of capitalism and socialism to make a 'more perfect union.'


Pete, you are 100% correct in that is the way it is SUPPOSED to be.

With the leftist leaning whackos that are in there now, we'd all be depending on the government for everything we have if they had their way.


I'm not so sure about your fist answer though. For the most part, they vote along party lines. That means they get their way with no discussion.

Author: Vitalogy
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 3:18 pm
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The GOP said yes to plenty of spending the last 8 years. Only difference is Obama is spending the money HERE while the GOP prefers to spend it on other countries. Personally, I'd rather see the money spent here.

Author: Skybill
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 3:19 pm
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Yeah, but Skep, what goes around comes around.

After the people that voted for lord Obama realize that they have been had, and that socialism isn't all it cranked up to be, and their taxes have sky rocketed to pay for it (sure, Income taxes will be cut, but that's just smoke and mirrors) it will turn around and bite them in the butt.

Author: Vitalogy
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 3:34 pm
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Several recent polls show that the people got exactly what they wanted with Obama.

Author: Listenerpete
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 3:53 pm
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I'm not so sure about your fist answer though. For the most part, they vote along party lines. That means they get their way with no discussion.

Obviously, you don't pay attention, especially when it comes to Democrats. For example, there two Democratic Senators with the name of Nelson - one in Florida and one in Nebraska. Both are fairly conservative.

Author: Deane_johnson
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 5:20 pm
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"Several recent polls show that the people got exactly what they wanted with Obama."

And even more than they wanted.

Author: Aok
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 6:02 pm
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Deane_johnson:

And even more than they wanted.

Never got what we wanted from your boys, freedom, liberty and less intrusive government. Remember to get those shoes off.

Author: Missing_kskd
Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 6:07 pm
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LOL!!!!


Hilarious.

When the Republicans were ramming stuff through, most of the people didn't want it. Now, we've got stuff getting done that the people do want, and support numbers as high as 80 percent!

Agreed 100 percent on spending the money here, instead of "there".

@Roger --You know, there are plenty of nice, decent Republicans. Don't get me wrong there. Those people should be PISSED! The 23 percenters, have pulled the Republican party very hard right and down at the same time.

The comments made about the "big tent" are very valid observations. When Republicans ran the show, it was a strict heiarachy, with very little internal squabbling.

Witness the NO votes of support for the stimulus, despite the President giving in to key measures.

What did that get him? Nothing!

That's the party of NO deal right there. As our buddy Herb would say, GRIDLOCK.

Everybody and anybody that actually wants to get some stuff done, so we get moving in a better direction, jobs and all that other stuff, is aligning with the PARTY OF ACTION.

That's the Democrats man!

The big tent deal means moderates, hard lefties, and others are all invited to the party. HOW it gets done is up for discussion. WHETHER or not it gets done is up for discussion, but less so.

There is no hard line, party unity vote like there was with the Republicans.

Meaning, ONE PARTY RULE isn't as bad with Democrats as it was with Republicans, because Democrats will debate it, Republicans mandate it.

I hope those people go hard, hard right. Deep south, like never coming back, still upset over the Civil War right.

That way, everybody else, who wants to advance the state of things can just get together and do it. All the NO! people can just go sit, chant, or do whatever it is they do.

Author: Jeffreykopp
Friday, May 01, 2009 - 2:32 pm
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Specter's party left him going one direction, and his constituents left him heading in the other direction.

The party needs a new theme. The Cold War is over, and GWOT proved a flimsy substitute. The Southern Strategy is dead, and opposition to gay rights is a sorry stand-in.

So now the party is down to (1) the rich, and (2) working folks who are paradoxically persuaded that their rights are trampled somehow if the rich can't continue to get richer.

Author: Brianl
Saturday, May 02, 2009 - 8:00 am
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Jeffrey, don't forget (3) the religious right, the "Moral Majority" if you will.

Author: Missing_kskd
Saturday, May 02, 2009 - 8:43 am
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Don't worry. They won't let him!

Author: Brianl
Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 6:18 am
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"...and opposition to gay rights is a sorry stand-in."

And some in the GOP see that. McCain, of all people, is now urging the Republican Party to embrace gay marriage! Even HE sees the writing on the wall!

Author: Missing_kskd
Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 11:15 am
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Yeah, that's going to be one hell of a fight.

If the party ends up not being defined by those issues, I suspect there will be a turd party.

For those successful at it, the new platform will be very interesting. Wonder if they will go anti-big corporate too?


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