ON PBS LAST NITE THERE WAS SHOWE ABOUT PETER,PAUL,AND MARY FOLK SINGING GROUP.WAS THER ANY RADIO STATIONS THAT DID 100%FOLK MUSIC??THEY (PPm)TRIED TO CLAIM CREDIT FOR ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE 60'S!! cOMMIE MUSIC??

I love you.

Pop Folk Music was part of top 40, and some MOR/AC formats by the 60s also College stations etc. A lot Folk came out of the Coffee houses and College/University Campuses of the 1950s.

Folk Rock set the stage for late the 60s Amercian Psychedelic Rock scene and the softer, more Pop 40 versions produced by artists like Joe South, the Boxtops, Joni Mitchell, PPM and the like .

The beatnicks of the late 40s and 50s drove Pop Folk music. Traditional Folk music, precursor to Pop Folk, was real popular during the Great Depression of the 1930s. The Hippies evolved from the beatnicks and so did their music.

Many years ago, in a fourth-grade music class, I remember the teacher explaining folk music and the lyrics to "Big Rock Candy Mountain." His explanation was that folk songs evolve by their being performed and heard, but are not written down by the composer. Thus, it is impossible to accurately track down their origin. "Big Rock Candy Mountain," he said, was sung by hoboes during their travels (say while riding in boxcars). Of course, the version of the song that appeared in our music book was cleaned up considerably (i.e. the "cigarette trees" had been replaced by "sycamore trees").

Probably a lot of music that people think of as "folk" or "folksy" based on its sound is in fact not folk because it was conceived by a composer who wrote down the music and lyrics so that they could be copyrighted. Real folk music, by definition, would be in the public domain. Unfortunately, I don't know of any radio stations that have done an all-folk format. It would seem that a true all-folk radio station shouldn't have to pay BMI royalties.

I think your teacher may have been wrong... Mac McClintock is credited with "Big Rock Candy Mountain"... When I was a kid, my parents had a 78 of Mac singing it.

http://www.bayarearadio.org/schneider/mac.shtml

Is all-folk radio coming to Salem soon?

http://www.myspace.com/radiofreesalem
http://www.salemfolklore.org/

I and the music teacher stand corrected. The Wikipedia article about the song goes into detail on the copyright controversy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rock_Candy_Mountain

Thus, this fits into the category of singer-songwriter music, which often seems to get confused with folk.

62kgw wrote:
ON PBS LAST NITE THERE WAS SHOWE ABOUT PETER,PAUL,AND MARY FOLK SINGING GROUP.WAS THER ANY RADIO STATIONS THAT DID 100%FOLK MUSIC??THEY (PPm)TRIED TO CLAIM CREDIT FOR ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE 60'S!! cOMMIE MUSIC??

First of all, quit screaming. Secondly, anyone to the left of Mussolini is a commie to you.

But it does appear to have evolved from an earlier "broadside ballad" and Mac did loose the copyright battle...

Not long ago the celtic group "Altan" was confused about "Girl from the North Country" thinking that it was an American traditional ballad. OOPS!

At its 1969 launch, KINK played a lot of folk-rock while Jeff Douglas tinkered and experimented, searching for the new station's groove in the emerging band

Maybe 1/4 of the first year's airplay? Not even KBOO nor KRRC carried more folk.

I've heard that Albert Grossman manufactured Peter, Paul and Mary, skillfully excising any scary pinko aura to create a safe commercial product. (The former Weavers watched with chagrin, with Lee Hays observing: "If it wasn't for the honor, I'd just as soon not have been blacklisted.") Dylan (another Grossman client) thrived behind a self-imposed wall of inscrutability ("No, it's just a hard rain").

Anybody remember a KINK Sunday evening program called "Folksound" in the early 70's? I think the host went by the name Jim Taylor... one of my favorites in the series was a program featuring an odd mix of English folk rock and American Indian music (I first heard of Jim Pepper on that show). The host seemed very nervous that evening, but later explained that his wife was there and about ready to deliver!

far left hijacked some songs like this land is your land,which was previously almost a patriotic song for all
there is also filk music!!!

Woody Guthrie wrote "This Land is Your Land" :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Guthrie

It appears that he was leaning to the left when he wrote it... does that make it a bad song in your opinion?

I really like the idea of a "folk" radio station, but the "Americana" genre has it fairly well covered these days.

Kennewickman and Jefferykopp both nailed some very important things down. I am glad others have a bit clearer vision of the genre and what happened to it.

Superconfusedkaygeedoubleyoo, Woody Guthrie was a liberal. A story-teller, songsmith, Merchant Marine veteran and all-American hero. Beyond his immense catalog of timeless songs, he is also one of my very favorite writers and doodlers. His son picks a mean guitar too. I'll say it again in case you missed it: Woody Guthrie was a liberal.

A cynic might say that Bob Dylan was an unrepentant charlatan who visited Woody to make sure he was really dying. Dylan represents the 60s genius poseur archetype like Jim Morrison, David Bowie, Lou Reed, George Harrison, et al. He showed flashes of brilliance, but appropriated virtually everything from Woody including his drawing style and hunks of his life story.

I would argue that Phil Ochs carried the spirit of the Almanac Singers with far more conviction than his commercially concocted brethren. His material stands head and shoulders above all of his better known peers. The only living man from the "Folk Boom" with both recognition and credibility is Pete Seeger. He was blacklisted too.

Alfredo, all folk music is "singer-songwriter" material. No song just appears out of thin air. Art needs a conduit. The ancient tradition of the bard carries through to present day folks. It is an unbroken line for centuries to Iris Dement and the recently passed Utah Phillips.

The only thing that has changed over the years is publishing. Some shake hands with that devil and some do not. Since economics, race and politics played a big role in the industry, things were even more lopsided than they seem at first glance. To this day, it is not unusual for an artist to make a great deal of money stealing material from those who do not or cannot play the game.

One might think that Stephen Foster died a wealthy man copping folk tunes and providing them to black face minstrel shows. Actually, he passed away with a penny for every year of his life in his pocket -- 37 cents.

Here's a twist for you -- there is an argument to be made that "filk" begat Rush.

When we sang "This Land is Your Land" in elementary school, some 26 years ago, I don't remember hearing any "far left hijacked" lyrics in the song. Has it been modified in some way since? Can you provide an example of the altered lyrics? Just for the record, I don't think that anybody would classify me as a "far left" guy.

For reference, the lyrics can be found here: http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/this-land.shtml In my recollection, we only sang the first and second verses. I can understand how someone might take the verse about the "No Trespassing" sign as a statement against private property, but I don't know if that is a correct interpretation of the lyrics. This is very similar to how some interpreted "Share the Land" by The Guess Who to be an endorsement of communism.

Alfredo, you are absolutely right. Woody Guthrie was an American songwriter. His personal politics were one of inclusion. His songs told the stories of forgotten citizens, celebrated the land, and called for justice. These are now considered "leftist" ideals by the lovers of prison camps, domestic spying and economic oppression. If one is not in tune with true American values, a fellow like Guthrie looks like he stepped out of a flying saucer.

Pete Seeger did include the "private property" verse in a recent performance... good on him!

"Obama Inaugural Celebration

On January 18, 2009, Seeger joined Bruce Springsteen, grandson Tao Rodríguez-Seeger, and the crowd in singing the Woody Guthrie song "This Land Is Your Land" in the finale of Barack Obama's Inaugural concert in Washington, D.C.[15][16] The performance was noteworthy for the inclusion of two verses not often included in the song, one about a "private property" sign the narrator cheerfully ignores, and the other making a passing reference to a Depression-era relief office.[15][17]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Seeger

Jr_tech, that was a great catch. I noticed it when I saw the concert too.

This Land is Your Land!

That was quite a performance... can't believe that Seeger is near 90! Not a dry eye in this household when he finished.

will have to re-considerthis land!does Alice's Restutant count as a folk song?when I was in 6th gradeaprox. 1969 a teacher with a guitar came to classonce a month or so and played some of those folk sonkslike: where have all the flowers gone??part of the left-lib indoctranation"education" of public schools for sure!!!did any of these far left folk songs/artists get banned on/from any portland radio stations?

"does Alice's Restutant count as a folk song?"

In the strictest sense, No. It is another singer-songwriter song composed by Arlo Guthrie, son of Woody Guthrie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlo_Guthrie

Arlo leans a bit to the right of his famous father, supporting Ron Paul in 2008.

does Alice's Restutant count as a folk song?

Maybe not according to Jr tech's description, but it is still one of the most classic songs ever written!

Next time someone asks you "What did you get?" Look them straight in the eye and say "I didn't get nothing. I HAD to pay Fifty dollars and pick up the garbage."

You will get the strangest look, I promise!!! (That is unless they are familiar with "Alice's Restaurant)

AR is considered a loose form of "talking blues."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_blues

without yet studying it yet,I think "this land " has both conservative and liberal interpretations!

without yet studying it yet,I think "this land " has both conservative and liberal interpretations!

Maybe, maybe not.....A great song just the same!

> without yet studying it yet,I think "this land " has both conservative and liberal interpretations!

In my opinion, the words "liberal" and "conservative" have been misused and abused to the point that they have lost much of their meanings.

From what Littlesongs said about Woodie Guthrie and his politics of inclusion, the "No Trespassing" sign is a metaphor for any circumstance where people are arbitrarily barred from participating in processes or using resources that they should be allowed to avail themselves of, by virtue of their citizenship. The song is intentionally vague about what such activities or resources might be. In 1940, when the song was written, one reasonable interpretation of the "No Trespassing" metaphor might have been the Jim Crow laws of the Southern states.

I don't think that the song is trying to say, for instance, that it is wrong for a farmer to own some land and to put up a fence and "No Trespassing" signs around it.

I remember my mother liking Seattle's The Brothers Four and other folk groups when I was very young. I believe the groups Dick Foley did local Seattle TV in the 80's.

The closest I ever got to folk was "A Mighty Wind"...funny, but not as funny as "Waiting for Guffman" or "Best in Show".

Call me naive if you wish, but I always thought that the "no trespassing" verse in "This Land" was nothing more than broad support of our National Park system, and against atrocities such as private beaches.

Too bad we can't ask Woody!

"PUFF THE MSGIC DRAGON"(PP&M SONG) GOT HIJACKED FROM A KIDDIE SONG INTO A DOPE SMOKING SONG!!!!!
THIS LAND WAD MADE(CREATEDOR EVOLVED????)FOR YOU AND ME(YOU AND ME=AVERAGE PEOPLE,NOT CORPORATIONS!!!??NO PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS!!!!!!"FROM THE REDWOOD FORESTS TO THE GULF STREAM WATERS(NO LOGGING,NO FISHING,NO OFFSHORE DRILLING FOR OIL OR GAS!!??))
NO USE OF NATURAL RESOURCES!!!!!????

"PUFF THE MSGIC DRAGON"(PP&M SONG) GOT HIJACKED FROM A KIDDIE SONG INTO A DOPE SMOKING SONG!!!!! "

I call BS on that one:

http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/puff.asp

When most people hear it a green fire breathing dino nonster is not the first thing that comes to mind!!,but rather you-know-what does!!!!although,that may not have been the songwriters intention!!!

1st or 2nd thing??!!

Of course, you may read anything into the lyrics that you wish... I visualize a dragon similar to the one in the cartoon series "Jane and the Dragon". If you wish to think it means something else, lean back, light up and enjoy !

If I had a Hammer could be ultraradicle-far left loony song too if "Hammer" is a code word for gun!!

I'm pretty sure I should quote Trixter about now: "WOW".

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and
he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."

" Where have all the flowers gone" was the first folk song I ever heard ( and that is because KISN played the Hell out of the Kingston Trio version )
that was totally understandable to this 14 year old.

The lyrics were unabashed and promoted an expanded thought process even to a hormonally possesed teenager who was usually more interested in anything female with reasonable features , under the age of 25, under 175 lbs, and sported a human genetic DNA print .

Andy, Nice!!!

Quoted from one of the greatest songs ever! (IMHO of course!)

I heard that Woodyu G. rolls over in his grave everytime/anytime a radio stationplays Alice's Resturant!!!?????!!!!!Far Left still promotes Littering by hanging their signs on telephone poles!!!

wasn't there one folk song that kind of promoted suicide?!!Good-night Irene, I think???

"I heard that Woodyu G. rolls over in his grave everytime/anytime a radio stationplays Alice's Resturant!!!?????!!!!!"

Nah! he's just a tappin' his foot!

This Lsnd also is anti-mining!!!!!"this land is mine land"???Woody is/was disgusted by Alice's Resturant!!!

I recommend that you read "Prophet Singer: The Voice and Vision of Woody Guthrie" by Mark Allan Jackson.(2007)

More on the "Private Property" verse, from CD liner notes:

"It was believed that Woody did not record any of the missing verses, but as Jeff Place systematically transferred each master in the Folkways archives to a compact disc, he discovered Woody's singing of the "Private Property" verse. It is number 14 in this collection". (Woody Guthrie, The Asch Recordings, This Land is Your Land, Vol 1, Smithsonian Folkways, SF 40100, 1997)

There is also a 7th authentic Woody verse that he published in a 1945 Songbook (Ten of Woody Guthrie's Songs: Book One)

Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway
Nobody living can make me turn back
This land was made for you and me.

Woody was always making up songs, and adding to and changing songs that he had already written, so I suspect that many more authentic Woody verses to This Land were performed by the artist.

did Woody Gever buy a house or -property?and did he ever let any bums(or anyone elsecrossover or camp out on it for free??

"There's several ways of saying what's on your mind. And in states and counties where it ain't any too healthy to talk too loud, speak your mind, or even to vote like you want to, folks have found other ways of getting the word around.

One of the mainest ways is by singing. Drop the word 'folk' and just call it real old honest to god American singing. No matter who makes it up, no matter who sings it and who don't, if it talks the lingo of the people, it's a cinch to catch on, and will be sung here and yonder for a long time after you've cashed in your chips.

If the fight gets hot, the songs get hotter. If the going gets tough, the songs get tougher."

-- Woody Guthrie

C'mon there, 62. I just know that you long to grab a gee-tar and bust out a few tunes.

Perhaps something like this ?

Come all you 620 listeners
bad news I have to tell
'bout how the liberal media
is comin' here to dwell.

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

They say in Portland Oregon
their are no neutrals there
for music go to FM
for lib-talk stay right here.

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

Don't listen to the bla-bla
don't listen to the lies
AM stations ain't got no chance
unless they stereo-ize.

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

Turn off AM HD !!!!
turn off all that noise !!!!
Replace the voice-track networks
with Radio that employs!!!!???!!!!

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

Sing it Jr_tech!

some of these folk songs were sung often at church picnics/sunday school,also boy scout campouts,around the campfire!them songwriters might noot like that now!!!call it reverse blacklisting!!

Woody said this about people using his songs:

"This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright #154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin' it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don't give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that's all we wanted to do."

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Guthrie

So grab up that gee-tar and start a singin'

S.Hannity has a part of a folk song he uses as an intro:"let freedom reign, let the white dove sing, it's the day of recogning!!?

62kgw, the selection of the song was odd for the Hannity show, but typical "title trolling" by lazy conservative media types. "Independence Day" is a hit number by Martina McBride about domestic abuse that has little or nothing to do with jingoism.

one of the Neo-Coms might hijack it!!!

Um... they already did... "Independence Day" is the number Sean Hannity is using on his show and it is a sad tune about wife beating.

Ronald Reagan appropriating "Born in the U.S.A." did not make the song any less critical of the Vietnam War or the ill treatment suffered by our veterans.

Rush Limbaugh appropriating "My City Was Gone" did not make the song any less bitter about the greedy destruction of our urban history and the death of our manufacturing base.

John McCain appropriating "Running On Empty" did not make the song any less of a blunt assessment of the frenetic pace and lack of direction facing the "me" generation.

When you can't listen and process the facts, song lyrics might as well be in secret code.

most foul/bitter Vietnamveteran treatment was at the hands/mouths of the far-left!!!Unions played a big part in driving manufacturers factories to far east and to Mexico!!!

Is White Rabbit a pill-poppoing song?

Damn! I was writing a reply to this thread, and the damned laptop ate everything that I had typed. I will be brief:

First, I am surprised and somewhat dismayed, now that I know the full lyrics to the Martina McBride song, that Hannity would try to hijack it into being a patriotic song--simply because it uses the words "freedom," "day of reckoning," and "Independence Day."

Second, White Rabbit really is about psychedelic drugs. The song is trying to say, according to its Wikipedia article, that it was trying to answer the question, why are youth today experimenting with drugs? The answer it provides is that the people trying drugs are trying to achieve the surreal states of consciousness suggested by children's books, such as Alice in Wonderland.

I think Hannitty first used it on 9-11 or 9-12??

Alice's Resturant is one of the most stupidest songs ever,especially the part about the jailmates!!!

mORE DRUG SONGS:
pROUD MARY[CCR],ALONG COMES MARY[ASSOCIATION] GOT TO GET YOU INTO MY LIFE[BEATLES]MOTHER'S LITTLE HELPER [ROLLING STONES]!!???

Of that list, I'd like to see somebody prove how any of them, other than "Mother's Little Helper" are about drug-related themes. Proud Mary is about a Mississippi River steam-powered riverboat--the kind that had the big paddle wheels in the back!!

I am quite sure I heard or read PaulM. of Beatles say that was inspiration of that song!!!I had heard about the Along comes Marymeaning "Mary Jane" for many years(perhaps 20 years or more from various sources.only heard about Proud Mary more recently.that was done by Tina Turner too!!!maybe the record company wanted to make people thing it was about riverboat rolling on the river rather than rolling a joint??? to increase mainstream airplay.maybe they fiddled a bit with the lyrics somewhat to do that???can Paul M and John F chime in here??

AAAAARRRRRGHHHHHH?!?! This is too much. My head is about to explode! I'm going to exit this discussion to make way for John Fogerty to come on here and explain how the record company executives made him change the lyrics to his song.

don't take it too seriously! your posts,AlfredoT are of good value!!

Don't you feel better now?

I think John F. changed one of his song's Lyrics from"there's a bad moon on the rise"... to "there's a bathroom on the right"!!???

Possibly TRUE...From:

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1912

"This contains a classic misheard lyric. The line "There's a bad moon on the rise" is often heard as "There's a bathroom on the right." Not only do many people sing the wrong lyrics, but John Fogerty himself sang the "bathroom on the right" lyric once during the "Premonition" concert. It can be heard after the last verse of the song quite plainly. (thanks, Gene - Hammond, IN)"

I think I heard that John F. now lives in NE Oregon and brings his gee-tar to community get togerthers!!!????

SEE NEW TALKIN' BLUES THREAD!!

OK-the pressure in my head has been relieved. I now present what would seem to me a very obvious question regarding a true all-folk radio station: If a radio station only played public-domain music (in other words, real folk), could the station get an exemption from paying BMI royalties?

Pete Seeger turns 90:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gxzA-_c7PwMVxcQWVP9FwFFPxhtwD9 7VI1RG0

Good one! I was just about to post this link:
(will post it anyway)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/arts/music/05seeg.html?em

Amazing! HAPPY BIRTHDAY, PETE !
Can't wait to see the HDTV of the concert on PBS!

another dope song:"Stoned Soul Picnic"??

ANOTHER"THE wILDWOOD wEED!!!??

"Semi-Charmed Life" by Third Eye Blind had a reference to crystal meth. Actually, there was a musical group called the Crystal Method. However, none of the drug songs listed so far are folk; somebody owns the copyrights to the music and lyrics.