If you checked out the A & E Section in the Oregonian today, they have an article on 5 Guys Burgers and Fries.
Here is a very interesting quote from the artcle in the A&E.

"The current restaurant, in a beaverton pod mall, is just a beachhead. Five Guys has plans for 27 Oregon outlets in the near future. which could could set set up a beef-off with the Northwest's own mid-level chain Burgerville."

27 more "5 Guys" coming to portland????? Holy crap that is a lot of burger joints! I'm a little worried they they will expand too quickly. Remember the whole Krispey Kreme Phenomenon. They started building way too many, and even had to shut some down. Look at At Starbucks, they are shutting some of their stores down and laying off a bunch of employees.
In this bad economy, 27 stores seem like too many. BUT hey, I can't complain, they are the best damn burgers EVER!
This place KICKS IN N Out in the ASS!!!

Krispy Kreme was guilty of expanding too rapidly, building stores when the times were good, without the capital to help foot the bill. They financed everything in their rapid expansion, creating a ginormous overhead. Sales hit the skids, and they were left holding the bag ... so now the profit margin on a Krispy Kreme is through the roof, and each unit has to hit an un-Godly sales mark just to break even.

How long did they say they were going to take to build 27 more units Justin? If they do it all at once, or even close, they will collapse. Didn't In-And-Out do the same thing in the Portland market? They all closed up right before I moved down to the area, but I remember being told about the concept ...

If you can get the capital, building out a chain in a slow economy is very smart. You can swing nice deals for leases and such in a down economy.

I don't know about you, but I've seen some very busy restaurants in Portland since the economy supposedly tanked. It seems to me that people are probably cutting down on their expensive restaurants but that fast food is probably as popular as ever.

Many fast food places are showing positive sales, yes Andrew. In the pizza end, industry-wide, sales are down about 10 percent.

But, those fast food places are showing less and less profit. People are buying more and more off the dollar menu, for example, and bargain shopping when eating out MUCH more. COGS as a percentage is WAY up, even though the price of our goods to us is slowly dropping. Any middle-to-higher tier restaurant chain, is down in sales. Some quite a bit.

It is a very favorable time to negotiate a lease, yes. But, opening up 27 units, one on top of another time-wise, is suicide, no matter what the economy is, unless you have the capital to fund the majority of it and finance as little as possible.

> "'Five Guys has plans for 27 Oregon outlets in the near future. which could could set set up a beef-off with the Northwest's own mid-level chain Burgerville.'"

> "27 more '5 Guys' coming to portland????? Holy crap that is a lot of burger joints! I'm a little worried they they will expand too quickly."

Notice the article states "Oregon" outlets, not "Portland."

It was not In-n-Out Burger that was expanding into Oregon. I think you're thinking of Hot-n-Now. During the 90's the groundwork for that franchise was being laid in the Portland area, as many buildings had been constructed, but few of them actually ever opened up.

One did near my house.

We very quickly learned it was cold and later!

Suck ass food.

The price for 5 Guys will help keep Burgerville in business for a long time. There is room for all the burger joints in Oregon and the Untied States.
5 Guys should do very well and 27 locations is great but if you can't afford the price the 99 cent menu at Wendy's looks real good....

The price for 5 Guys will help keep Burgerville in business for a long time.


Why do you say that Trixter?

If you go to burgerville and get a Pepper baccon cheese burger basket, and compare that with a 5 guys burger with fries and a drink, it roughly comes out to the same price. I think it might be a dollar more at 5 guys BUT, the portions are huge at 5 guys. A small fry at 5 guys(or there smallest size fry) is what a large fry at Burgerville is .
Burgerville and 5 Guys are Very similar in price! I consider those two places gourmet fast food because they are much MUCH better than Mcdonalds and Burgerking.

And don't compare 5 guys to Hot N Now! Thats like Comparing a Rolex to a Casio watch.
Hot N Now tasted like SHIT! it was awful. I remember going to a Hot N now and thinking, how on earth can they sell this crap!!
I don't care how cheap your prices are, if your food tastes like shit, NOBODY will be back. Plus I still think their is a market for people that want a good burger and are willing to pay more for a decent burger, (EVEN IN THIS CRAPPY ECONOMY)

I didn't need to eat at Hot N Now to know what their burgers would be like...

Hey, I loved Hot-n-Now!

Lamented their closing.

As was pointed out in the other thread, the name still exists, it's a regional chain somewhere.

Of course, my favorite is still Jack-in-the-Box.

Jack in the box (I just threw up in my mouth!)
More like jack in the crack!

"Hot N Now tasted like SHIT!"

Can you describe that taste, JT?

Sounds like I need to make a trip to Beaverton!

If 5 Guys is better than In n Out, then that's worth the drive!

No kidding!

I'm there.

(In 'n Out is my favorite)

The only fast food joint we'll eat at, which is about once every 4-5 months, is Burgerville. For several reasons. Local, Local, Local.

They buy ingredients from local growers who use sustainable practices.

I believe after 6 months you get health insurance for working 30 hrs a week.

Their management style is focused on the employee and what's best for them so they can earn a living wage either full or part time. Top management often spend time behind the counters to get a better idea of what the needs of the employees are.

Their former president goes to my church and was George Prostra's son in law. The guy is one ethical boss and stepped away from the day to day operations of Burgerville to help run the umbrella company The Holland, Inc.

I simply wouldn't trust any other fast food joint.

chris says
Their management style is focused on the employee and what's best for them so they can earn a living wage either full or part time. Top management often spend time behind the counters to get a better idea of what the needs of the employees are.


It's too bad their burgers are ALWAYS COLD!!! Im so F'ING TIRED of plopping down 8 dollars for a burger basket at Burgerville and eating a cold burger!!!! I refuse to eat at burgerville anymore!

Not only does 5 guys Burgers and Fries have great burgers, but their food is always hot.

Bonus points to BV lovers that actually ate at The Holland restuarant. (Food was just so-so though.)

Chris,

I've always been a fan of Burgerville.
Thanks for giving me more reason to!

Remember George Prostra's 80's (ish) Burgerville TV commercials?
My favorite was when he was about to go thrash one of his workes for suggesting they use frozen hamburger.

Burgerville is my favorite fast food joint. However, I don't see them in the same category of fast food as McDonalds or Jack in the Box.

And as it turns out, I found out last night that a 5 Guys joint is opening up less than 5 mins from my house. They're still completing the building so it may be a month or two, but I'm looking forward to giving them a try.

Beano sorry you've had bad experiences at Burgerville. Have you tried letting them know about your dissatisfaction with their cold burgers?

http://burgerville.com/#page:/About-Us/Contact-Us.aspx|secNum:6|subSecNum:4

Like I said, we rarely eat fast food and I haven't had a fast food burger in about 15 years.

Burgerville and its parent company, The Holland Company, have done a very good job managing its growth all the while providing employees with benefits unheard of in the world of fast food. Plus they’ve shown a genuine commitment to buying locally and environmental concerns.

It's too bad their burgers are ALWAYS COLD!!! Im so F'ING TIRED of plopping down 8 dollars for a burger basket at Burgerville and eating a cold burger!!!! I refuse to eat at burgerville anymore!

Been eating there for 35+ years and never had your problem.

For a cheap fast food burger, I'll go to Carls Jr. For a good burger, I'll go to Calamity Janes in Sandy or Stanich's. If I am going to spend $5 for a burger, It will be Stanich's...on Fremont. When in Vegas, it is In-n-Out.

Haven't been to 5 guys but imagine I will try it. I don't care if they give you a mountain of fries with it. I'd prefer to pay less and get a small hill of fries rather than a mountain. I don't want so much that I leave it. Not supposed to eat that much potato anyway. I like Carls Jr because I can add salsa to the burger from their salsa bar.

Burgers are like all other food...it is a matter of taste. What you like, I may not. It depends on what is in it. I happen to like pickles. One or two slices does not cut it. I want a uniform layer. I never get that at Burgerville. To start, they don't put any on their basic burgers. You have to ask for them and if you say extra extra extra, they might put one on. Burger King will give me a full drink cup of them if I ask. Most other places will, also. We do go to Burgerville because the kids want to but they only get the chicken strips. Yeah, I have received cool burgers from them.

I must be crazy, compared to most of you, but I am looking for flavors and additions I like for a good price. I am not concerned about workers benefits or how the manager works the till or other such things. It is about value for the price. I am not rolling in money as many of you are. Out of necessity, it comes down to flavor for price. Taco Bell is good. I can get out of there for under $2 for a couple cheesy double beef burritos and a free senior drink.

Who said pricey restaurants aren't doing well? We just got out of Outback. They are not cheap and they have been packed since noon. Granted, it is a special day but still.......
I know others that are not doing well. Including low priced fast food places.
Decent pizza places are not cheap, anymore.
But you can still get a good haircut for $8.

So here's my question.

How many times a week does everyone eat out. Be it fast food or otherwise?

Every day.

5-6 times per week!

well if you count what I make myself at work, daily. Otherwise, 3-4 times per week.

2 - 3 times per week. Generally Jack-In-The-Box or Subway. Once every few months, Burgerville and McDonalds.

I just wish a fast food joint like Burgerville for example would put a Turkey burger on their menu.

Nothing better than a double Turkey burger with Bacon and swiss cheese with just mayo and mustard. Devine.

We will eat out for dinner maybe twice a month, but less now that we have a little man to take care of. But, I eat out for lunch 4-5 days a week.

I had Burgerville the other night (and the burger was piping hot). I do eat out more than I care to admit, fast food too. My cholesterol is fairly low, though, in case you are worried...

For burger joints, I have several tiers. McDonalds and Burger King are "last resort" - when I've got 20 minutes to change planes at Midway and need to grab food for the plane or something. I like Carl's Jr. but their burger quality has slipped the last few years - onion rings are still good. Used to like Wendys's but their fries taste like crap to me now.

Burgerville is a bit more expensive than the others though I understand they use better-quality beef and probably treat their workers better than those at McDonalds. And many Burgervilles offer free WiFi now as well.

I'd rather eat tar than Burger King, at least their hamburgers. I just can't do it. Last time I ate at Carl's Jr. it was the one on Fourth Plain in the Albertsons parking lot, I was sick for two days after, and I can't even stomach the thought of their burgers.

Being in Spokane, it's Zips, on rare occcasion Dick's downtown (first thing I got my girlfriend when she visited in December, her first trip to Spokane, a bag of Dick's) ... or a hole in the wall by where I live called the Thrifty Scotsman. Best fries and tartar sauce I have EVER had. Of the biggest chains, I prefer McDonald's but that's a last-resort thing.

I also like Sonic a lot, LOVED it in Vegas, but the two in the area here screw up my order every time or forget it altogether so I stopped going.

I haven't been to a Carl's Jr's in years but thought their fries were the worst in the fast food kingdom.

I will NEVER eat at a Dairy Queen again. I tried to use a $20 DQ gift card given to me by my mother and was told the card was no good. When I complained, the owner of the franchise excused me of trying to steal from his restaurant. For the record, it was the DQ on Main in downtown Vancouver. Too, I frequently use gift cards (Starbucks on a nearly daily basis purchased at Costco) and have never had any trouble.

So it averages out to about 4 times a week per person eating out per week.

I can count on my one hand how many times I've eaten out in the past 6 months. Then again working from home I just go upstairs to the kitchen.

However so you all don't feel like I'm preaching again, when working for others and in my single days I probably averaged eating out 3-4 times a week.

Classic bachelor story for me was to go out shopping and buy maybe 30-40 dollars worth of groceries and then get home and decide to go to eat. Or make what I called the Bachelor Burger, which was bread, mayo and melted cheese. Simple and filled me up.

Life has certainly changed many of habits I once held close.

So Brian--when your girlfriend came to town after you haven't seen here for a while. You got her "a bag of dicks". I bet LOL. See you soon in
Vegas. Regards. Steve.

LOL well ... long story on her Steve, you'll meet her too as she'll be with me in Vegas. We'll explain maybe over an In-And-Out?! I gotta try the phenomon!

Everybody knows women just love "a bag of dicks"!

Talpdx: "When I complained, the owner of the franchise excused me of trying to steal from his restaurant."

Exsqueeze me?

LOL -- that should be "accused". I'll be more careful next time.

Still better than "one more thing you might not be a where of"!!!!

Who did that one? Not me I hope. But I wouldn't be surprised.

Sheesh grammar-spelling police.

I eat way too much fast food but I am trying to cut back.

There are certain menu items I like from most of the places mentioned here but usually not the burgers.

McD's: Fries no salt (that way they are guaranteed to be hot... (tip I picked up back in the day).

BK: Sorry every once and a while I gotta get a Whopper, light onion, heavy pickle... It's super salty and the bun has just enough sugar to makes it slightly sweet on some level it works for me.

DQ: Chicken strips ain't too bad... Bacon cheeseburger is ok.

Jack in the Box: Best fish'n'chips in the industry. I also really like that they serve breakfast 24/7... sometimes I want an egg sandwich at 10 o'clock at night...

In'N'Out: Never been.

Hot'N'Now: best part of that place was their fry sauce.... awesome.

Burgerville: meh it's been 25 years since I last ate at one... so I dont really recall...

Sonic: Only had their shakes and they are better than any I've had at a major chain.

Wendy's: There is so much that is heinous and wrong with this place that I don't go there. Worst fries. Terrible service. SQUARE patties. Yellow Buns... the list is endless.

Oddly enough one of the best burger's I've ever had of "fast food" quality was at a gas station. The Texaco in Castle Rock, WA. Its on the right as you pull off I-5 and man they make it like burgers back in the 70's were made.

Warner said "Everybody knows women just love "a bag of dicks"!



Heck, Even I LOVE "a bag of Dicks" and I'm a heterosexual!!

Go figure

"In N out" is so over-rated! Their burgers are so-so and even though their fries are fresh and prepared locally, they still don't taste that great. I have to agree with the hype on "5 Guys" that place really does have tasty cheeseburgers and delicious fries.
The burgers at "5 Guys" are hard to beat! They are a MILLION times better than In N Out burgers!

In N Out can be like throwing darts. I've had really good burgers at L.A. locations, and so-so in Vegas. Seems like they were tastier a decade or so ago. Do like their quirky hidden menu items, and they always ask if you're going to eat in your car so they can equip you right.

I find In-n-Out fairly good for what it is. I have only been to a few in Vegas, not the one just off the strip. I have been to one next to the University and one further down Sahara. It is better than most chains. You need to know to ask for it in a different style...I forget now what it is...jungle style or something like that. Fries are OK, not great. The Double Double is what you are supposed to get.

I used to like the old Whizburger on Powell for a decent cheap burger back when they were popular in the 60's. Dickeys on 82nd was good, too. Later, I liked Boc's on 37th and Broadway. They also boasted using local ingredients and proudly displayed the list on the wall at their location. I thought they were better than Burgerville.

I went out today and tried Five Guys today. It was good. They do a good job. The fries are good but I don't know if they are the best or not. That is subjective and based on personal tastes. I like them better than many others but not necessarily better than some.
Given a choice between Red Robin (overrated) and Five Guys, I will choose Five Guys. Probably Five Guys over Fuddruckers, too. The only advantage at Fudds is the ability to put as much as I choose on the burger. I do like 5 Guys choices of addons, however, all free. My complaint about them as well as Fuddruckers is that they tout the size due to the height (thickness) of the burger. It is hard to eat that way. I would prefer the same amount on a wider buy so it spreads it out more, rather than a 3-4 inch diameter that it takes an upper and a lower bite to eat it. I like uniformity in each bite. I like 5 guys putting relish on even though it is sweet relish, I prefer dill pickle relish, however. From what used to be Steinfelds. I like not putting mayonaise on the burger (don't like). 5 guys lets you put lots of alternatives, steak sauce, hot sauce, etc., on it.
Yeah, Five Guys is a pretty good burger. Will I go back? Sure, if I am in the neighborhood. But in my neighborhood, it is still Calamity Janes in Sandy. Put a Five Guys in Gresham and I'll be pretty loyal.

I agree that no matter where you go, the fries are not as good as they used to be.

The best thing they (any of the fast food places) could do to improve the taste of their fries, is to go back to frying them in beef tallow like McDonalds used to do.

Screw the health food nuts. If you are eating fried food, you are not concerned with your health anyway!

"If you are eating fried food, you are not concerned with your health anyway!"

You'll be well preserved in your grave Sky.

Nah. Not me. I eat way more fried food than I should!!!

Sometimes while I'm out running around and don't have time for "good" food, I end up eating at a fast food joint. More often than I care to admit!

The object of life is not to end up being lowered into your grave with a well preserved body, but to go kicking and screaming yelling "holy crap, what a ride!!"

Hopefully the ride won't end earlier than it should.

If you ever get to Canada, try Harvey's. It is on the price scale of Burgerville but you can have them dress your burger almost anyway you want in front of you -- the same way they dress the sandwhich in front of you at Subway. I always wanted lots and lots to tomatoes and they would always honor (or in their case, "honour") my request.

To answer the other question, I used to, before the economic downturn, eat out at least three or four times a week. Our family is probably down to once or twice a week now... trying to save the money.

Edust - my GF raves about Harvey's. I'll be trying it in May, eh?

Amongst all the mudslinging and name calling currently the norm, I thought I'd bring a non-political (?) topic back for a quick update.
Although, I realize that this depends on personal likes, feelings, and taste.......much like politics.

We haven't heard about Five Guys here for a while but they are opening their second one in the area today. At least the sign in their window a few days ago said they were opening their location in West Linn today. It is at the 10th St. exit off I-205. About 40 feet from McMenamins (possibly one of the worst in that chain..and the slowest) and near the newer Roses.
No Burgerville there but there is a Jack in the Box across the freeway and a McDonalds a block away. That McDonalds seems to have the employees with the worst attitudes.
We'll see how 5-Guys does there.

Harvey's burgers are great! Their poutine is just so-so, though. Gotta go to Quebec to find a good plate of that!

We tried Five Guys the other night. Overall, I was disappointed. I had the double patty bacon cheese burger and a large fry. Total cost between the two was about $10. While the burger was good, it was not $5.89 good. And the fries sucked. I'm sure we got a bad batch as they were a tad on the crispy side, but still, they sucked. I'm not sure I'm convinced that their buger and fry meal is worth $10. I don't think Burgerville has anything to worry about.

I don't know about Beaverton but in West Linn, it has slowed down. They still do a business but not at the rate as when they opened.
I agree that the Burger and Fry are not worth $10. If I am going to spend that much for a burger and Fries, I'll go to Stanich's or some comparable type place. Yeah, the give you lots of fries but that is more than one person needs to eat. I would rather they cut back on the amount of fries and cut the price of them by half. I think the burger prices should be cut by at least $1. I had one a few days ago in West Linn and it seemed smaller than previous. The bun wasn't as good, either. I got the little burger and it was $3.50. $2.50 would have been more like it.
But, I won't spend $8 for a Red Robin burger, either.

Went to 5 guys today -- it was about 2 PM. I felt like I was being warehoused around.

The burger wasn't bad. The fries too greasy.

Next time it's BV.

5 Guys is the best and far superior than Burgerville! I have yet to hear complaints about the place, except on this board and I have talked to a lot of people who love that place.

Burgerville is going to be in real trouble since THEY CAN'T EVEN KEEP THEIR F'ING BURGERS HOT! THEY ARE ALWAYS COLD!!! And yes, I've heard other people complain about COLD BURGERS AT burgerville! And Vitalogy you're bitching about the price of 5 guys Yet if you go to Burgerville and order the colossol burger basket with a large fryy and coke it is just as much. I think its actually a buck more at 5 guys.

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
I guess if your ok with paying five bucks for a burger that has been SITTING UNDER A HEAT LAMP FOR 5 HOURS than be my guest and go back to Macdonalds and get the quarter pounder with cheese meal.

BIG MACS TWO FOR THREE BUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Justin_timberfake: Burgerville is going to be in real trouble since THEY CAN'T EVEN KEEP THEIR F'ING BURGERS HOT! THEY ARE ALWAYS COLD!!!

Never once had a cold burger at Burgerville. I have one there once or twice a month.

I think you all eat way too many burgers period. The best burger is the one I make at home. Hands down. Bitch on.

Make mine a Turkey burger on a toasted bun with mayo and mustard with Swiss Cheese and Bacon, simply delicious. And yes at home.

Shy-

Mine is a salmon burger from New Seasons with melted rice cheese slices, organic mayo on spelt muffins with avocado.

Think I'll have that for lunch today. Another CT classic!!

guess if your ok with paying five bucks for a burger that has been SITTING UNDER A HEAT LAMP FOR 5 HOURS than be my guest and go back to Macdonalds

The trick at any fast food place and especially McDonalds is to NEVER order right off the menu.

Always add or subtract something. Extra onions, no lettuce.....anything so they will have to make it fresh.

As far as fries at any of the fast food places, I always ask for mine fresh up out of the grease. That way I know they will stay hot as Ieat them!

"Bitch on".

That's a group *plonk!* from our friend Chris.

Agreed on the home burger.

Take the meat --get lean for the best burgers, mash in some spices, (usually I use just garlic salt) press thin with a plate or two that just fit right, wax paper and lay the things on the grill.

Finish up with sliced cheeze, melted on the burger, right as it's finishing up on the grill, fresh veggies, toasted bun and burger sauce.

(KSKD burger sauce = your choice sweet or dill relish, 1/3 mayo, 2/3 ketchup, sprinkle or two of celery salt 'n pepper, stir in relish to taste and texture)

Bonus points for lightly seared onions. This can be done on the grill too, but works best on a side burner, if you have it. In a light pan, heat some olive oil, a sprinkle of sugar, or use a sweet onion, and pepper.

Combine to taste, cut and get stuffed!

We've noted fast food is really a bummer now. The prices are high enough that a fast meal for 4 will exceed the cost of just firing up the grill and rolling our own, so we mostly do.

You can do the above for about $20.

If you meat gets dry on your grill, which can happen with lean meat, mix up some plain old salt water. Apply this to the meat, and flip if on an open grill, or don't flip, if on a restaurant style grill. Cook on high heat. You get that flame taste, and the meat does not have time to dry. Slow cook, on an open grill just kills a burger.

Close the lid, wait, open, then check.

Also, don't ever, ever squeeze the burger flat to check it. That releases what moisture exists in the thing. Use a meat thermometer.

I guess this just shows that we all have our tastes and preferences. What one likes, the other may not. That is fine. I can see where you all like your homestyle creations and that is fine. I personally wouldn't like what you prepare because of what is in it. That is OK, too. I don't eat anything with Mayo in it. Just me. Making burgers at home, I like Steinfelds dill relish (red). Started liking it from the old Boc's days and still prefer it. Can't really find it much anywhere anymore. What I like about Five Guys is standing there and going down their list and telling them what I want in it as I read the list. I do load up on a lot of the stuff. Extra Extra pickles, please. When I go to Burgerville, I ask for extra extra pickles and they tell me it doesn't come with pickles. Well, then add some on it, not just one but an even layer of them. Same problem with Taco Bell. I ask for no rice or beans and they tell me it doesn't come with rice. Well, no need to tell me that.....I tell you I don't want it and if it doesn't come with it, then what is the problem?

Anyway, to each his own. That is why there are so many choices out there.

Well, the beauty of the home deal is you get exactly what YOU want!

Part of the fun is finding out just what that is.

Man, I hear you about the Taco Bell and other places. I think I am maybe 4 out of 10 for correct, timely orders. It's really bad.

Some places are better. BV is generally pretty good about this stuff. I like the food too. My weakness is the simple double cheeze burger with the spread. Man! I can eat a batch of those things.

I really, like pickles.

I'll ask for the soft taco, meat and cheeze only. So then, they have to parse that and ask me questions. "No Lettuce?" FUCK YES, NO LETTUCE. WHAT PART OF MEAT AND CHEESE ONLY DIDN'T YOU UNDERSTAND? DO I NEED TO SAY IT SLOWER?

If I end up going there, I'll bag on it, because I just KNOW some ASS CLOWN is going to slip a BONUS into the food. Sucks.

Another one that's really getting me is the rapid fire questions. So I'm at the Burger King, trying to score a quick lunch. Sometimes I just do that because the day is a mess, and it makes more sense to just eat...

I ask for a number one. Just figuring they will be able to handle that. No way.

Before I even get done saying "one", rapid fire, "WHAT SIZE?". Now they've hosed up small, medium, large. We've got regular, large, extra, vente, tall, value size, and god knows what else.

So I say, the $4.99 price size. "DO YOU MEAN SMALL?". I say, "IS THAT $4.99". "YES" I say, "YES".

Then it comes, "CHEESE?", "WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DRINK?", "EXTRAS?", and on and on.

The hostile, selling at every turn really is a bummer.

So, now I just give the order backward, sit back and enjoy the fun.

Another one happened recently too. At a Mc Dees.. "That will be $2.00 at your second drive through window!"

Me: MY WINDOW? DON'T YOU MEAN YOUR WINDOW?

Them: (amazingly) NO. YOUR WINDOW.

Heh...

Me: SO, CAN I PUT MY NAME ON IT THEN?

Them: (pause)

Me: THANKS.

So I get to MY second drive through window, and they ask how I'm doing.

Given that I was accosted, I'm not in the best of moods, so...

Me: Suicidal. If that food is fucked up, I might not even make it to the street. You?

If I had a camera, I would show you all that face! Priceless! The woman had no response at all. NONE!

Finally, she turned away, and bitched to somebody about that food.

BTW: It was absolutely perfect.

LOL!!

...I think I am maybe 4 out of 10 for correct, timely orders. It's really bad....

then, they have to parse that and ask me questions. "No Lettuce?" FUCK YES, NO LETTUCE. WHAT PART OF MEAT AND CHEESE ONLY DIDN'T YOU UNDERSTAND? DO I NEED TO SAY IT SLOWER?

I ask for a number one. Just figuring they will be able to handle that. No way.

The common denominator?

You speak English. They don't understand English.

meaning what?

I hear you, Missing_KSKD, and I agree. I prefer the Burgerville Double Cheese burger, also. The only problem is that it doesn't normally have pickles and I have to ask repeatedly for them.

I learned a few years back from a Drivethru frequenter that she never drives off without first checking each item in the bag to make sure it is correct. It doesn't matter where you go, they always make a mistake.
Usually, it is because as Skybill states, they don't really understand English. How many times do you go to the drive thru and the person on the inside speaks with an accent and after you clearly state what you want, they still ask for clarification. Perhaps that is why many places now have a screen so you can see what they have written for you. Yes, I do see mistakes on it from time to time. Usually, if I go inside, the order is correct.

Oh yes!

You have to check the bag. It's a Schrodingers Cat kind of thing. If you check it, it's fine. If you don't, then of course they just put random food in there.

It helps to ask for the special items in a separate bag, if you are ordering for a few people. The usual mode is to put the special items in the bottom, hoping nobody looks, until you drive off. Once you've moved, chances are you are GONE, and they are done.

Then there is the pressure to drive off. Most of them glare at you, then the line of cars, and you just know they can't wait until you move. And there is the other nasty bit.

If it's wrong, and you hand it back, and there is a line, it's ugly. You might get that BONUS item in your food.

meaning what?

Meaning that if they are going to deal with the public they need to read, speak and understand English.

So then, why aren't the positions filled by more English-fluent people?

Surely its not a shortage of English-fluent people.

You're getting what you pay for.

If you're going to take a generalized crack at people who don't speak English well but otherwise can do the job, then put your money where your mouth is and go someplace else where the menu items are priced higher and are likely to attract more English fluent workers.

...but otherwise can do the job,...

If the orders are screwed up, then they aren't doing their job. At least not correctly.

There are a couple of Wendy's that I visit (more often than I care to admit) that have almost all English sppeaking people working at them.

My orders have never been screwed up at those.

If you want to know which ones; The one on Andreson Road in front of Home Depot and the one on NE 162nd Ave. at NE 18th street.

On the other hand, the BK at Mill Plain and I-205 could screw up a 1 car funeral. They once had to remake my Double Whopper 4 time before they got it right. Needless to say I avoid that one like the plague.

If restuarants can't find more qualified people for you at minumum wage in this day and age of high unemployment then that's pretty telling -- you get what you pay for.

"You're getting what you pay for."

No way. Fast food is fairly expensive now, compared to what it used to be.

There is this too:

There are no excuses for shoddy service and workmanship. None. It costs what it costs to produce a product and deliver it to the market place.

In the smaller town I live in, the local fast food joints employ kids mostly. Know what? They get it right!

Where that isn't true, you find people unable to find lots of other work, so they work the jobs the kids used to work. Some of them working two or three jobs.

It is absolutely possible to have a competent organization at the wages they pay. The people can be trained, the processes can be tuned to minimize the training effort, and the product can be made correctly.

The fact that it isn't reflects more on the franchise owners and their attitude in business more than it does the industry, or the workers in it, or the product.

When I hear people say, "you get what you pay for", I almost always see outright failure of people to accomplish their goals, not some price barrier that justifies people getting treated like shit.

To set the example:

If that were my establishment, and I could only find those "english challenged" workers, I would stand in that place 24 / 7, fixing that through brute force, if I had to, until it ran right.

And every single customer would see that, know it's being worked on, and have my consideration until it's actually fixed proper. Through that process, I would collect names, addresses and use that for marketing later on, promotions, and feed back, should it slip.

And it would absolutely then run right, or I would churn through those people one by one, until it did run right. Why? Because that is just simply how it is done.

This is a straight up work effort / reward equation. There are no excuses for this. None.

Doing the right things doesn't cost much. There is always time and money to do it right the first time.

Always.

What can you do? You can barely get warm bodies to show up for these gigs. Managers are on the phone all the time trying to get others to come in to cover the people who didn't show.

Granted, if you can get a good manager, he/she'll be able to make it a great place to work and the employees will WANT to do good. Unfortunately managers like these will be in demand elsewhere (higher pay) and will move on.

So at way too many miniumum wage joints (and not just restaurants), you've many borderline managers and lots of people who don't want to be these because of that.

You can demand or even fire employees that can't provide the level of service you want, but at $8.40 an hour, the pool of job applicants is going to resemble the person you just fired.


Run a restaurant at $10.40 an hour, you'll be able to recruit the cream of the crop of the $8.40 pool and with the right manager, the restaurant will run itself, because after all, you can tell the subpar employee "I've a stack of applications in my office this high from people your job".

Order a burger at Red Robins, its rarely wrong. Burger King? Well, it depends on who got called in today to fill for the person that didn't show up.

And lets not forget skybill lives in Washington where the min wage is $7 something. I don't see skybill as anyone who would support a min wage bump, but he's clearly complaining about the service of people doing min wage work.

And lets not forget skybill lives in Washington where the min wage is $7 something. I don't see skybill as anyone who would support a min wage bump, but he's clearly complaining about the service of people doing min wage work.

Actually WA's minimum wage is $8.55 for 2009 and it was $8.07 for 2008. Source: http://www.lni.wa.gov/WorkplaceRights/Wages/Minimum/History/default.asp

I don't know that I'd support a blanket bump. I'd more support a mandatory bump after some period of time based on performance.

While a bump in the minimum wage seems like it would help the wage earner, it the long run it really doesn't.

If the employer is forced to pay the workers more, they are most certainly going to pass that cost on to the consumer. Invariably it ends up costing all of us, including the minimum wage earner, more.

Next. I don't care how much you earn. If you are going to deal with the public, then speak ENGLISH, with exceptions of course.

The burger joint was just the example where this was brought up.

Well, congrats to Washington.

I'm thinking the best workers at $8.55 are also English illiterate. I've a hunch restaurants are already plant their better cust service people at counters. Think about it. Franchisees have strict business plans they must follow yet screwed orders are everywhere. Clearly they're making the best of what they find at the bottom of the barrel.

I also think minumum wage workers aren't going to be eating out a lot with that increase. But they might be able to afford to buy a car with a wage bump spreading the dollars to other businesses in Clark county.

Skybill...

You might want to seriously start making your own lunches. You'll save money and get exactly what you want without language problems.

Seems like a no-brainer.

Chris,

You bet! A homemade sandwich beats a gut bomb any day!

Although, I have to say that my 2 favorite sandwiches to eat away from home are;

1 - The Combo at Michael's (next to Hippo Hardware, at Burnside and Sandy). Combo, wet, extra hot peppers, a side of au jus, fries and a diet Coke! Yum.

2 - Pastrami and Swiss at Philly Bilmo's on 164th here in Vancouver. Pastrami and Cheese. That's it, no mustard, pickles or anything else. Fries or chips and a diet Coke. Again, yum!

Dear Friends,
I love gut bombs! I know when I've had a great lunch because I will continue to pass gas all day! Kinda like when I eat those Costco Hot Dogs!

Love always.

From the "gas-ier" side of Buns.

My wife says it doesn't matter what I eat, the "winds" come along!!!

Hey Bill,
I challenge you to a "GAS OFF".

We will both go to Costco one day, Stuff are belly's with the Costco dog's then hang out the rest of the day. The first person to stop passing gas loses!

What do ya say?? We can have Merkin be the referee!

Things I would never want to see...the previous 2 posts.

Well.........That would follow the definition of "Flatulence"

flat⋅u⋅lence   /ˈflætʃələnse/ [flach-uh-luhnse]

–adjective

1. generating gas in the alimentary canal, as food.

2. attended with, caused by, or suffering from such an accumulation of gas.

3. FEMALE - An embarrassing by-product of digestion.

4. MALE - An endless source of entertainment and male bonding!!!