So, Let's Recap- (In just the first three weeks..)

1. The American people elect a president with a total of 142 days experience as a US Senator from the most politically corrupt state in America whose governor is ousted from office. The President's first official act is to order the closing of Gitmo and make sure terrorists civil rights are not violated.

2. The U.S. Congress rushes to confirm an Attorney General, Eric Holder, whose law firm we later find out represents seventeen Gitmo Terrorists.

3. The CIA Boss appointee, Leon Panetta has absolutely no experience, has a daughter Linda we find out, who is a true radical anti-American activist and a supporter of all the Anti-American regimes in the western hemisphere.

4. We got the most corrupt female in America as Secretary of State; bought and paid for.

5. We got a Tax Cheat for Treasury Secretary who files his own taxes.

6. A Commerce Secretary nominee who withdrew due to corruption charges.

7. A Tax cheat nominee for Chief Performance Officer who withdrew under charges.

8. A Labor Sec'y nominee who withdrew under charges of unethical conduct.

9. A Sec'y HHS nominee who withdrew under charges of cheating on his taxes.

10. Multiple appointments of former lobbyists after an absolute campaign statement that no lobbyists would be appointed.

And that's just the first three weeks. . but who's counting?

America is being run by the modern-day Three Stooges ~ Barrack, Nancy, and Harry ~ and they are still trying to define stimulus..."it's spending"...

The congress passes the $800,000,000,000 (that's $800 billion) pork loaded spending bill where, the government gives you a smidgen of your tax dollars ($13 per week) making you feel so good about yourself [stimulated] that you want to run out to Wal-Mart and buy a new Chinese-made HDTV and go home and watch Telemundo!

So......do you feel stimulated?

Yeah.
I'm feeling stimulated to Gag.

Er, half of that $800B was TAX CUTS not "spending." You righties are supposed to salivate whenever the government cuts taxes - eh? Or is that only when they are cut for the wealthiest Americans?

Only a blind partisan would endure the last eight years of Bush incompetence with nary a word of complaint - in CREATING this financial mess in the first place - and then nitpick about some initial hick-ups in starting a new administration.

(Nice to see ya Deane! :-)

I will concede one point – the vetting could have been better on the tax issue.

I look no further than George W. Bush and eight years of sustained recklessness in the managing of the economy and the war in Iraq. A trillion dollars down the drain in Iraq and hundreds of billions stolen or squandered. Not to mention all those killed and injured. And for a war that should have never happened. And what do we get for our trillion dollar stake in Iraq – a stalemate. The promises George W. Bush made over and over and over about victory in Iraq – a bloody f*cking joke. Remember May 1st, 2003, “Mission Accomplished”? He and the civilian leadership made a mockery of the war in Iraq. I cannot begin to fathom what the titles of classes at West Point will be called when evaluating our time in Iraq. Perhaps: “The Long Road Down a F*cking Rat Hole courtesy of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld.”

Then of course we have Katrina. Whatever the role of the federal government should have been, his administration’s response was a national disgrace and tragedy. Even his closest advisors when recently interviewed said that because of his lack of attentiveness to the Katrina issue, he lost the country.

Let us not forget the Don Corleone of the White House, Dick Cheney. When Woodward and Bernstein were chasing Watergate, Deep Throat told Woodward to follow the money. In the Bush White House, it was follow the stench. Inside, you find Dick Cheney and his cesspool of neo-conservative traders driving this country lock, stock and barrel into the gates of hell.

Then we have a doubling of the national debt. That means he piled up as much debt as his 42 processors combined. And we did we get for our $5 plus trillion dollars? What legacy did George W. Bush leave us with all the money he spent as president? A cure for cancer, heart disease, AIDS? New infrastructure investment? Top flight schools? A health care system that is the envy of the world with coverage for all? Victory in Iraq or Afghanistan? Osama bin Laden tried in the USA?

Plus let us not forget his over $1 trillion dollar tax cuts for the wealthy with no real offsetting cuts in spending. Any conservative with an once of integrity should have wondered gee, why isn’t he cutting spending? George W. Bush and the GOP controlled Congress were pansies. They did all the easy stuff but refused to do the heavy lifting.

142 days of President Obama is like the 1st pitch of a nine inning baseball game.

Deane_johnson:
1. The American people elect a president with a total of 142 days experience as a US Senator from the most politically corrupt state in America whose governor is ousted from office. The President's first official act is to order the closing of Gitmo and make sure terrorists civil rights are not violated.

I just love it when you cons talk about Obama's inexperience versus the experience of a woman who could see Russia from her house. Palin was completely clueless and showed it every time she opened her big mouth, but for some reason this didn't seem to bother YOUR side. Of course, your side says, she wasn't running for president. I don't get the relevancy of this statement. She was running with a 72 year old man with known health problems, so there was a pretty good chance we would have had another white trash president had McCain won.

I notice you talk about the corruption of Obama's state. Let's talk about the corruption of Ms. Palin. Let's talk about how she tried to get her ex-brother in law fired because he divorced her sister, you don't seem to care about this among other questionable things she's done as governor. This bitch scared the hell out of me, Obama does NOT do that.

Until you can show me your side practices what it preaches when it comes to ethics and you can show me your side can nominate someone competent, I just don't want to hear anymore of this shit. YOUR side dumped us in the mess we're in. YOUR side sat by and let corrupt corporate executive cheat, steal and yes, poison this country.

My friend, if you were a democrat, waynes_world would be calling you a LORE SOSER right now. Your side blew it, that's why the dems are in power, live with it.

We are in trouble.

The question is how hosed will we end up getting? This stuff works on a latency. The damage has been done. Whatever impact that has is still working it's way through.

Obama has started corrective action. That takes time too. Probably a year to really kick in.

...and what Aok said.

Seriously man. How can you come here and even ask that crap? You know better. I know you do. We've had the conversations.

Republicans didn't govern. It's that simple.

The Democrats not only have to govern, but govern WELL, or we are even more hosed than we might already be. That burden, as usual is on the Republican party.

That's it I guess. If you need the therapy, try DailyKos. Not only will they bite in greater numbers, but they bite much harder and for a greater length of time.

The Deane I've conversed with wouldn't pull this crap.

Hate to ruin everyone's fun here.

The truth of the matter is, it really doesn't matter which side you're on. The problem is just too big to fix. We're now at a point of re-arranging deck chairs on The Titanic. The America we all knew, is going to be OVER soon.

The New America is going to be a different place and it's going to take some time getting use to. WE will make it and WE as the American people will be stronger from this, just as WE energed from the Great Depression.

I don't believe that's the case.

If it is, then we must declare the American experiment to be a failure. The founders didn't get it right, we can't have a free society, etc...

The core of what makes this nation hasn't changed all that much. What has is our priorities. We are paying for that, but it will come around.

IMHO, we will be returning to some great elements! It's just been a 30 year or so long bad spell, where we got sucked in.

Happens. We will get over it, just like we did the last time.

A generation will get lazy, sucked in, and this will occur again. I think that's just how it is. Enough iterations and we will grow from it, and deal with something else.

One upside is a steady progression of civil rights, tolerance and personal freedom. There are a lot of things broken, but we did elect a Black President, and the up and coming generation is way over the issues we squabble over today.

There is progress in that, and it is good, despite how crappy it feels right now.

These problems were certainly progressive and evolved and were influenced by forces from both sides of the political equation. This unbridled Mortgage/credit/market mess was perpetrated and enabled by the unabashed Right Wing Capitalists AND by the unabashed Left Wing Social Engineeers including those of the Legislative persuasion.

Now we have a President and a Congress of the Social Engineering persuasion at the Helm of the USS AMERICA traveling at Warp 6. The question is now ; are we going too fast to avoid anything like the black hole of oblivion !

I tend to agree with Craig on this one.

I think we've got it because we bought into supply side bull shit, and we've dug in for 30 years. D & R both bought on, and continued the mess.

Obama is breaking with that path. He is the first in long chain of people that recognizes this. That's the "CHANGE" part. We need it.

The work digging out won't be easy, but is possible.

When we factor out that gaffe, come to acceptance on that, we then will start to make good progress as a nation again.

I'm not so concerned about tagging who did what right now. We've had those conversations.

What I am very interested in is conversations to undo it. Otherwise, we just have to say it's over.

I'm not there.

You nay sayers are all about government not working. Well, if it can't work, then we are fucked, right? Founders were wrong, back to square one. No way. And frankly, if it's that driving the bad opinions, it's not worth entertaining.

Government can work. It has to work, as it's been demonstrated throughout our history that some form of governance is required if we are to establish anything beyond the minimum for our lives.

I'm not there either. That's a Mad Max scenario, and we are one hell of a long way from that.

So then, ideas that embody the core idea that we, the self-governed, can work this out are all I'm interested in.

Anything else is really just acceptance that our nation is a failure generally.

What the hell happened to Country First?

The thing that concerns me is that this seems like the very beginning of Bush's first term (Jan. 20th to Sept. 10th), when dot-coms were going under left and right, unemployment was rising, and everyone either disagreed with what Bush was doing or was embarrassed by it.

We all know what happened after that. And supposedly we were all supposed to unite under some sort of new unity where values came from a top-down approach, nobody was supposed to question them (therefore their opinion on the issues were supposed to be your opinion on the issues), and everyone was supposed to conspicuously spend as much as their pay and credit cards would allow.

Of course, it didn't work.

So yes, I do think we're in trouble. Is it because someone is a liar, a cheat, or had a bout of infidelity? No. Face it: we all lie, cheat, and steal, because we all see even "shared" various morals and such much differently.

Yes, it may be true that the capitalist economic system and the republic political system (and much more democratic the further down the state/local ladder one goes) are the best theories as to how wealth should be distributed and how laws should be made. It doesn't mean that they'll be the best that will ever be available. We'll probably come up with some new system(s) in the future (unless we analite either enough of the population and/or the planet first), and the only problem with how/why the current system hates all this is because the people and institutions at the top under a capitalist republic won't be under whatever the new system will be. And, I'm not just talking about currently available non-capitalist, non-republic/democratic models out there, I mean something that isn't written down on paper yet (or, if it does exist, it isn't well-known).

Believe me, if I had the answer, I'd be sharing it right now! I don't like to see anyone suffer, either.

...the best theories as to how wealth should be distributed...

Here is how wealth should be distributed;

If you work you have money. If you don't work, you don't have money.

Obviously this is over simplified as there exceptions such as disabled people who can't work, etc. (and that is where taxpayers should step in and help)

But it is the basic premise.

Deane, its about time you got on the YouLost.com bandwagon. But watch your kids closely, NRA gun nuts aboard are killing their kids with Uzis.

Give Obama a chance. He's been president two months. My goodness, the challenges before are huge. But we are a resilient people. We've lived through the Civil War, depressions, recessions, two World Wars, Korea, Vietnam; it's not as if we haven't faced adversity.

As we more fully integrate into an even truer global trading colossal, we’re going to need to better understand how to manage all the intricacies of globalism – and that takes time. Most of the geniuses that had it all figured out may not have figured it entirely correctly. It’s time to go back to the drawing board and make the necessary changes. But we must stay competitive at home – maintain our responsibilities domestically while continuing as a major player on the global stage. That may not sound very attractive to some folks, but with our economies so closely linked, it would be difficult to reverse course.

I don’t think our political leadership did us much good in preparing us for globalization. I can distantly remember Al Gore in his debate with H. Ross Perot talk all the jobs that would come as a result of globalization. Sadly, it hasn’t happened. It’s going to be a rough ride for awhile but in the end, once we’re better able to adequately understand the needs of not only corporations in this global economy but the people of this country (and people of other countries as well), things will improve. But it’s imperative we keep our political leaders in check. If they continue demanding more globalization without honestly charting the true possibilities, we’re going to continue having the massive hick-ups. It’s clear that what we are experiencing today is not only endemic to the USA, but the world as well. We have much to learn.

Shit yes we're in trouble. ALL of those things could point to us having made a mistake.

Then again...none of them may.

Is this where I get to say " History will judge Obama's Presidency."? Of course, we all know why that phrase is so fresh on my lips.

Your point isn't lost on me though Deane. It's worthy to keep an eye on as many red flags as possible. Some will pan out to be nothing to have ever been worried about. Some won't. I too have my limits as to how far let things go into " History " before I feel comfortable making a call either way. But I can say that you have obviously been chomping to get that list out somewhere.

Consider it read and considered.

Can I scratch " Muslim " off my list yet? How about " not born in the United States "?

I'm still holding on to " enslave whites " though. It's just got a nice ring to it. I hope I become Urkel's slave. Just to pick up some cool dance moves.

How's that for now?

I hope I become Urkel's slave. Just to pick up some cool dance moves.

Yeah, sure you do.

I think you just want the suspenders and to wear you pants up around your chest!!!

Deane, thanks for mixing it up a little. Some need to push reset and look at whats going on daily in our country...nothings improving here...bad economic policy here clearly seen/recognized in Obama's launch...not good.

Craig is probably right. Just how long can you live in borrowed money, anyway? It's not just the federal government - it's all the people in America who have thousands of dollars in debt on their credit cards, who may now be losing their jobs, unable to make the payments on sub-prime loan that is about to jump in payment size and lose their house, etc. The house of cards is coming tumbling down.

I do think America will be very different in the next ten years than the last 20 years. Maybe not as bad as the 1930s but nowhere near as prosperous as recently. The standard of living will be lower on average, for sure.

The standard of living will be lower on average, for sure....

I'll settle for a lower standard of living if costs for basic needs are lower as well.

As for jobs being the key, everyone can't be an entrepreneur and be their own boss. That means U.S. companies have to have the social responsibility to reinvigorate the U.S. manufacturing base. Plain and simple, if your home office is in Delaware, but the bulk of your manufacturing is based overseas, then you are NOT a U.S. company and should be subject to a FOREIGN COMPANY TAX RATE, higher than the current corporate tax rate. Either encourage them to create jobs here, or let them move the home office offshore as well. If we aren't good enough to build it, then let them sell it overseas as well. Certainly the vaccum will be filled by someone who recognises a need. Overly simplistic, but can we build enough WALMARTS to employ everyone?

Yes, things are tough now, and job cuts are part of it but when some local factory closes/relocates, and 50/100 people lose their jobs, where do they go for their next opportunity?
Multiply that hundred or thousand fold and the pressure on the social safety net is crushing.
People need to produce something, so they have the money to buy things, others need to sell those items. We have lost one leg off the stool. Too many sellers not enough makers. Our capital does not circulate within our own pockets.

The chain has been broken.

Just wanted to see if any of you had come out of your state of euphoria and begun to realize what you got in the White House. Most haven't.....yet.

The US economy didn't start to turn for Reagan until mid 1983, two and half years into his presidency. So to expect miracles two months into the Obama Administration is shear insanity. At least we don’t have a chief executive that is busy sugar coating the truth, making false pronouncements or flat out lying to the American people. I didn't see the "Mission Accomplished" banner rolled out when the stimulus was passed.

It’s obvious many conservatives want President Obama to fail. They could care less about the country; for them it’s about making tawdry political hay out of the worst economy in a generation. It’s really quite narcissistic. Why is it that President Obama needs to have the economy back in healthy form yesterday whereas it took Reagan almost three years to move the country from recession to recovery? These things don’t happen overnight and quite frankly it’s disgusting to listen to conservatives gloat when in fact it was their policies that manufactured this situation.

Then there is the denial of the GOPers who helped create this mess. Tom Delay was on MSNBC yesterday blaming everyone but the GOP and George W. Bush. That’s the kind of verbal diarrhea that got them knocked out of power.

Keep on talking Rush, Tom Delay, Sean Hannity – you keep doing the DNC’s job for them. The more we hear from you, the more the body politic finds your rhetoric nauseating.

Sorry Deane--If Lord Obama were to wipe it out and wizz on the floor. Most on this board would blame Bush for it. I have tried to support our new president for one big reason. We are in deep Stuff right now. Let's hope he gets it right. Because we are all in right now. And could I have the suspenders and pants that Irkle has.LOL.

Well, so far he's done exactly what he said he was going to do. The only people bitching are those people who didn't like what he said he was going to do.

Missing, I know you're a devoted parent and a quality person. Now, when you sit around the dinner table and look at the kids, you can think about how they're going to pay for Obama's nonsense their entire lives.

Don't give me the "Bush did it too" stuff. Yes he did and that's why a lot of us Republicans don't like Bush and what he did. But, Obama and the nuts in Congress are doing it times 10. How does that make it OK?

Do you really feel better, and do the children's futures look brighter when you blame Bush?

Deane, I don't think there is a single person in here who LIKES the stimulus package. I am going out on a limb here and saying that nobody in here is excited, thrilled, about such a ginormous bill, that does indeed push the deficit up even higher.

The difference between THIS and Bush's deficit is that this one puts people to work. Improves infrastructure. Perhaps it will do something, down the road (we're not going to see immediate results, folks) to once again build up the blue-collar worker, the worker that has disappeared in the United States of America.

Bush's Presidency was the first since Hoover to see a net job LOSS. The average wage also went down during his eight years ... and before everyone piles on for more "Bush-bashing", I readily adknowledge that there were multiple factors here tied in. IMHO, most of it was tied in with the massive deregulation of the financial institutions, leading to massive lending to folks that didn't qualify, spurred on by ultra-low interest rates. The premise was great, spur spending, get the economy moving, but it collapsed under its own weight, much like a business that expands way too rapidly.

Tal is right, Reagan inherited a mess in 1981 when he took office, and it got worse before it got better. One of Reagan's biggest answers was to raise defense spending to exorbitent levels of course, in this case it would be used for improving our roads, bridges, schools, etc.

Let's give this a chance to work. Obama himself said that this will define his Presidency, and he is willing to accept the consequences personally ... which is a complete 180 from the last eight years.

Deane_johnson: Just wanted to see if any of you had come out of your state of euphoria and begun to realize what you got in the White House. Most haven't.....yet.

Nothing but sour grapes from a bitter partisan who has seen his party defeated in the last two elections and his ideology proven wrong yet again.

No matter what happened on election day one thing is for certain. Regardless of the outcome that day we would still be in the same mess we are today. Plain and simple, McCain wasn't going to do any more or less good in the first hundred days or crystal ball it into the future if you need to also.

It is obvious that those on the left have their ideas and those on the right have theirs. It is also obvious that, with a few exceptions, most in Congress go with the party line and won't change. That is to be expected. The balance has shifted left for the time being and those on the right see it as the Dems are more interested in their power and go with Party first, country second. During the last administration, the opinions were the opposite. It will always be that way.
And for the average person it is the same. Everything you are saying the Republicans are doing now is exactly what the Democrats were doing the last two years.....Blocking anything the administration wanted to do because it would be bad for the Democrats. Pelosi even said that if the war in Iraq ended and the economy were good in 2008, it would be bad for the Democrats and she was going to see that it didn't happen.
Things don't change.

Having said that, I believe the tide start shifting a long long time ago. Just as Roger mentioned that people need to make things. That is the basis of what grows a nation and the economy. You need to manufacture and sell things to create wealth. We have moved from a manufacturing nation to one of a service industry. Everybody services/sells things but nobody makes things. The manufacturing industry has left the country (in large part) and we have moved to a nation of just moving money around and managing it (not very well, it appears). We let the Asians and other countries make things that we sell but ship the money offshore. We still use oil from other countries and send them a good deal of our money that goes out of our circulation. What do they do with our money??? Have you looked at Dubai and what they are building? Do you think they like selling their oil at $40 a barrel? Do you really think that it will stay that low? As long as they are the major source and we don't drill our own, it will go back up as soon as they can get it up.
Now that we are creating a big debt for this country that we will never be able to pay back, what are we going to do when that extra oil money goes offshore?
Energy was the big problem in recent years and except for the current problems, it still is. The last two administrations have done virtually nothing about it and it appears the current one won't be able to either. We don't plan ahead enough. The American people live from crisis to crisis, much of it self inflicted.
I remember during my International Sales career that the push was to go out and sell so we can ship the next quarter. It worked in the US but not overseas. Particularly Japan. You couldn't expect to go over, make a sales presentation, take the order in one month and ship the next quarter. You needed to start by developing a relationship and work the relationship because they did not deal with the now but with the future. Of course, that was 20-30 years ago.

We need to go back to being a manufacturing nation to have good jobs for the masses. We need to be a strong manufacturing nation, not a money shuffler.

I have read a lot of statements in this thread and others where it is obvious that many are only stating what they think someone said without really listening to the whole verbage and I see party line stating of opinions not based on fact. Until that changes, nothing will get accomplished.

This board is a good example of why bipartisanship and working together is a myth. It is the same as in Congress. The opinion is that working together in a bipartisanship manner means you have to come to my way of thinking because your opinions are wrong. As long as one side does not actively listen to the other and they meet somewhere in the middle, their will always be the big split. Each side will have to compromise on their beliefs and opinions. Those who have none will not find it difficult. Those that do will probably never meet in the middle somewhere. To argue about it all the time is a useless waste of time and energy because, as you can see here, nobody changes their mind and you resort to useless name calling and bad feelings.

Deane, how about you post something you compose yourself rather than cutting and pasting some pathetic email you received from a likeminded conservative loser?

Are we in trouble? Yes.

Why are we in trouble? George W. Bush and GOP leadership (if you want to call it that) over the last 8 years.

We are where we are today because of YOUR policies. People that break the shit don't get a say in fixing it. Your way has been proven to be a failure. The proof is in the pudding!!

Thank god Obama is president. I can't imagine how fucked we'd be if McCain had won. More of the same tired and proven failed policies would be in place. And Obama's approval rating of 68% proves he is doing what the American voters wanted.

Nicely done Jimbo.

---

quote:

Missing, I know you're a devoted parent and a quality person. Now, when you sit around the dinner table and look at the kids, you can think about how they're going to pay for Obama's nonsense their entire lives.

---

KSKD's kids won't be paying for Obama's nonsense, they'll be paying for Bush's nonsense!

Bipartisanship a myth? Yes sadly, and do you know why? Newt Gingrich. Up until he became speaker, the relationship between Speaker and the Presdient was pretty decent. Efforts were made to make things work in Washington DC. But as soon as Gingrich came to power, the gloves were off and the GOP leadership decided they were going to engage in a game of reprisals for all that Newt and company felt they had suffered under the Democrats (which is bulls*it). But this should not come as any surprise to anyone. You look at the kind of person Newt is, a chronic philanderer, social misfit and intellectual bully. Those are the kinds of individuals that don’t work well with others. In fact, The New York Times Sunday Magazine this past Sunday had an article about the former speaker his many shortcomings. If this is who the GOP is turning to for advice on how to proceed the next four years, figure they will apply their scotched Earth policy when it comes to bi-partisanship. Again, they could care less about the country. To them, it’s all about ideology.

It should be said that there are plenty of examples where bi-partisanship worked. It's too bad the ideologues can't find a way to look past party loyalty and work to get things done.

Where's the change? (Not to be confused with "Where's the beef")

Did Deane post all that with a straight face?

It's simply hard to take the GOP seriously when they start pointing the political finger.

Nice try Deane.

Chris, either you didn't read it, or you have no counter argument. Is there anything in my original post to dispute?

Deane copied his first post in this thread from:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=def_1235140858&c=1

In typical hate monger fashion, the right wing is feverishly trying to reorganize the GOP in their image.

I've got news for anyone that hasn't heard:

The country is overwhelmingly supporting Obama and his administration. His approval rating has gone up. His favorability rating is even higher, and the percentage of Americans that think we are headed in the right direction has increased approximately by double. (as polled by The Wall Street Journal, a Faux property).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29493021/
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/03/obamas_at_60_ap.php

Gosh, Deane, are you bereft of personal thought on all that's happening? Have you demeaned yourself out of frustration over the ass wupping the GOP has received in the last two elections?
Are you in total denial of the facts? It appears that way. Clearly, the economy had so much negative momentum, courtesy of Bush and his minions, that during the end of the campaign and the period between election and inauguration, the President told us things might very likely get worse before they get better. Of course it is not in the mindset of right wing faux conservatives to allow a period of time for changes to actually be implemented and begin to work. You see, Deane, you are the kind of person who is generally a malcontent when your signal is no longer being received by many listeners. Times are tough for many in the Northwest, and you never have caught on to that. To you, any hardship is the result of lackluster performance on the part of the individual and not related to the oppressive politic that has allowed the upper crust to obtain ridiculous levels of wealth at the cost of entire sectors of our economy. Now that their greed has caught up with them, and they have been outed, all you seem to want to do is whine like a baby.

Chris, Deane is the one you don't want in your foxhole.

Andy- Deane used to sign my checks. For that I am grateful. However I will agree with the foxhole.

Deane-Let's say everything in your copied post is true? I still stand by my initial post. You called Bush a boob on more than one occasion. You should be directing your posts to him.

Again....nice try.

Eric Holder’s former firm, Covington & Burling. You mean the same firm that employs Gordon Smith?

CIA Director Leon Panetta has no experience in the field. Just like George H. W. Bush when he became Director of the CIA during the Ford Administration. I didn’t realize that being head of the Republican National Party gives you the credentials to be CIA chief.

The most “corrupt” female in America appointed Hillary Rodham Clinton as Sec. of State is bought and paid for? The misogyny never stops with some people. Who is paying her freight? The Carlyle Group? Bechtel? Halliburton? Blackwater? The Blackstone Group?

A Labor Sec'y nominee who withdrew under charges of unethical conduct. Who are you talking about, Linda Chavez?

As for the tax issue, it’s been resolved. Daschle withdrew and perhaps the vetting could have been better.

Modern-day Three Stooges, naw. I like to think no further than the "Two Nitwits", George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Perhaps you haven’t been watching or listening. But today, we have a President that doesn’t write in crayon and speaks using words that include more than one syllable.

Ok, so now I'm ready for "The Rest Of The Story". (yeah, I really liked him too)

I'm tired of the shit. The direction of the nation has changed. Supply side is out. We are going to go down the road of solid middle class economic policy, and that means investments in this nation that lead directly to jobs, and the product of those jobs is dollars that will be used by business to provide more jobs, more product, and do it in a more competitive environment.

Yes, that's essentially the New Deal again. Deal with it, that's what we voted for, that is what is going to happen.

Most of us want this because quite frankly, most of us are completely fucked. Might as well just get real about that.

I do think about my kids. Vitalogy is spot on. They will be paying for Bush. If Obama does well, they will use Obama dollars to do it, and ideally do it quickly.

How is that for some brutal, in your face framing?

So then, following that line, Obama has stated the following things (not inclusive) are gonna get done:

1. Sane health care policy. This cuts risk for everybody and will seriously benefit small business more than anything else. Given most of the new jobs will be small business, this is a seriously good move.

Bring that on.

2. We are going to up the tax rate on the top percenters. They drained us dry and were happy about it. Now they can pay some back into the system to get us all healthy again. The result of that will be a larger middle class, and with that a more stable and productive pool of wealth for those clowns to pull from.

It's for their own good as much as it ours. I want them wealthy as hell. However, I also expect a solid opportunity for my kids in return for that consideration. That's the terms, and a big part of the next item is how that goes down.

3. We are going to repeal tax breaks for corporations that send jobs overseas. This has been the most brutal part of the old economic era. It has personally caused me THREE fucking job hops. Those were at considerable personal expense in terms of time and skill development.

I might actually face a FOURTH. -->and yes, I'm building those skills right now, on my own damn time, because I think I probably have to. (again)

I don't want my kids to have to do that. Of my peer group, only a few of us have managed it successfully. Some college grads, some not. All pissed as hell at having to bag skills, buckle down, obtain new ones, only to end up refreshing it over and over. Fuck that. It's expensive for everybody.

So that's one element.

The other one is simple opportunity. An ordinary kid leaving high school today has a big problem; namely, very poor availability of jobs that can pay enough to sustain a starter life.

As parents this is draining all of us as we have to contribute more to that young life, just for basic living, than we otherwise would. That puts a pinch on school, and the lack of new kids entering school, means a lack of them coming out, and that limits our global ability to compete.

We do that by building and innovating better than the other nations do. Look around man. We are sucking. That's part of why we are in debt.

So we need to improve the state of jobs, and that means building new ones, or bringing old ones back. I don't care which happens, only that it does, in fact, happen.

Families used to be able to live a modest life with Dad pulling down full time work, maybe some nice over time a few times per year, and Mom doing odd things here and there. We need to return to that, and for that to happen, we need to be producing value here, not trying to exist as some sort of bizzare global money changers.

Manufacturing, research, agriculture, alternative energy, transportation, Internet, bio-tech, and it goes on and on. The stuff is sitting there in our fine schools, just waiting to be exploited. So we do that, and put a lot of the middle class back to work doing skilled work that is valuable enough to actually pay for the burden of raising a family.

It needs to cost more to send a job to china then it does to just produce it here. It's that simple. With those tax breaks removed, that's going to be the reality more than not, and that's damn good for us.

The business losing the tax break is gonna be pissed about not being able to over exploit people, but at the same time, will enjoy the more robust market for their future innovations.

Innovation applied to labor over time is how we get our ass out of this sling. That does not mean finding new ways to move jobs to under-developed nations, only to end up buying our own damn innovations with Wal*Mart wages.

It does mean research and development and incentives and market rules from Uncle Sam that encourage the ripe exploitation of them, right here in the good old U.S. of A.

We kick ass when we do this. So we need to just do this, like we used to do it, and kick the supply siders to the curb and pay down the nut.

Maybe when my kids are entering their 30's they will see some serious opportunities and their families will have it a lot better than mine did.

For the record, I grew up broke ass. Opportunity was out there for the taking. All one had to do was apply their mind to the problem, get after the books, and sell themselves and deliver that value necessary. Hard work, but doable.

Right now, for kids leaving school, those are still there, but it's far more difficult. That's my big worry.

Where are the next round of business owners and innovators going to come from, if they can't even get a start?

There is no way I want my kids to do what I had to do. Of the peers I know, perhaps 5 percent of us, who had to go that route, were successful. That's not pretty. We can do better, we must do better.

As tough as I had it getting started, kids today have it worse! That's not ok. I've no regrets over how I grew up. Frankly, I've a ton of great skills all over the place because of it. But I'm rare, and I know it. Setting that as the default expectation is the wrong expectation to set.

We can do better for our kids, and that goes right back to jobs --jobs here. Jobs that build value here, so that wages can be paid here and so our currency is strong here.

Finally, I'm tired of the shit for one simple reason:

The money is absolutely going to have to be spent. Diluting it with tax cuts and other older-school, known to be failure moves to appease people, only prolongs arriving at the solution, and nobody wants that.

The only thing worth debate at this point, is what to spend the money on. And that debate is all about what delivers the most value directly to the middle class. That's it.

When we do that, we then perform fine. Go read your history books. Read some older economic theory books, pre supply sider crap, and it's all there for your happy consumption.

I have no time or inclination to even give obstructionists the time of day. Fuck them. They had their shot, they lost, and it's a new day.

I fully realize he is The Chosen One, and saying anything whatsoever about his administration is considered blasphemy by the left, but it appears no one has chosen to dispute the truth of the post.

No, I certainly didn't write it. Missing would be the only one that took that much time from his work for such things.

I repeat, where's the change?

I gotta add to this. Since you asked Deane

Back when we were debating the next President, the question "What is the plan?" came up often. Obama articulated that plan, and won on the basis of that plan.

Some of it is above.

Let's just play fair all around then. What is the alternative to spending the money?

The only thing I could think of was to do the pay labor with printed dollars bit posted elsewhere here. The consensus on that is that it wouldn't work, fair enough.

I was thinking of EVERY option that makes sense.

Here are a few more:

We sell the nation outright, free the debt and live by some other rule of law. Like that one? I sure don't.

Don't pay period and start a big ass war. I don't like that one either.

My point is this. Obama has the support of a clear majority of us. Given the election returns as well, we've established a clear MANDATE to get this stuff done.

If there are solid alternatives, that are not known failures like tax cuts are, bring them to the table. Everybody will listen. Obama has made it completely clear he will listen.

Otherwise, STFU. Literally! I like you Deane, but this is shit.

Want us to feel bad about the state we are in? Want us to feel bad about fixing it?

Fuck it! Do you just want us all to feel bad?

I'm inclined to say that just might be the case! Your team took it in the sack hard, pushing hard on what was supposed to be the winning plan! Republican nirvana. A New American Century.

Boy, that went down fast, didn't it?

If you need to feel bad because it's over. Be my guest. It's not ok though to work others over because you've not come to Jesus on how this all went down and what it means.

I, frankly, have!

Now it's time to get to work and build. That costs money, unless there is some magic trick we are holding back on.

Either we suck it up and just do it and do it big, so we get it fixed quick, or we go down some of the more ugly roads to greater failure.

That's how I see it. A majority of my peers see it that way too. All of us are going to give Obama the same damn consideration given to other new Presidents.

Anybody NOT doing that is a selfish fuck, and doesn't deserve the time of day.

And yeah, I'm talking about "Pills" Limbaugh, the baffoon, who's only real motive is power and dollars. The guy could give two shits about how things really go. He's got his nut made and it's all gravy and pride from here.

Fuck him. And fuck all those who buy into his BS.

Time to get stuff done. How is the ONLY debate on the table. Liking it is not even on the table. If we had that luxery, we wouldn't have experienced enough pain to elect somebody like Obama anyway.

Think hard about that too.

IT's so bad that as a nation we are walking around thinking, "Yeah, the Black guy with the Muslim name! Sweet, that's what we want!" (h/t to Bill Maher)

It's all about the kids, and for many of us, it's about our own retirement. 401K plans worth maybe the paper they are printed on isn't gonna cut it. Inability to save and rebuild for lack of jobs and a weak currency isn't gonna cut it. Adding to the risk pool, which is already very high for most people, by cutting programs that address risk isn't gonna cut it.

Jobs, dollars, value, opportunity, progressive taxation, health care, alternative energy.

That's where it's at. We need to deal, or kneel.

And I'm not inclined to kneel just yet.

You?

The change from Bush? You mean, no more thumbing our nose at the rest of the world? No more torture? Closing GITMO? Changing the mission in Iraq to get OUT? Providing health insurance to millions more American children? Beginning to transform our health care system? New ethics rules for lobbying after you leave the Obama administration? The guy's only been president for 6 weeks...

Yeah, there were some snafus with nominees messing up their taxes. Republicans apparently hire better accountants. Big deal. Again, I say: sour grapes on your part, gripping about nothing. There are slightly more pressing problems to worry about for those of us not bitter about our recent setbacks at the polls.

Asshole.

I can write that in 10 minutes. I can do it in 15 while ON a phone call. Just call that part of the skill set, I've had to evolve to deal with this shit.

You, on the other hand, cut 'n paste, or grunt.

I'm not sorry for it either Deane. I know you know better. Put up or shut up.

"I repeat, where's the change?"

The change is happening. The results of the changes won't happen instantaneously, but you know that except you keep yourself in denial about a new plan because simply put, you are a heretic.

You're just trolling when you continue to repeat yourself, too.

Big ships do not stop or turn on a dime. What's a matter, didn't self enough window blinds this past month?

There's one thing certain, he's the Republican's dream come true as they prepare for the next election. Jeez, $35 Million to save a mouse in San Fransisco.

Oh yes, and no more earmarks. Care to look at the new stimulus bill. Where's the change? What about the promises. No more earmarks. Did he send it back saying take out the earmarks. Nope, he signed it.

You choose to play fast and loose with the terminology. The large majority of the bill (98%) contains no earmarks.

The 2% that are earmarks is split 50/50 when you look at who sponsored it. Not only that, but it took only 40 Republicans to spend as much as 58 Democrats.

Next question?

Oh, and with regard to the next presidential election ... by then the economy will be zooming right along and all those Republican weenies who did nothing but obstruct its legislation will have fewer supporters than a girls locker room.

You don't know what an earmark is. And your question was answered by Andrew in full so quit asking it.

"I fully realize he is The Chosen One...'

Deane I have yet to read any post from those of us who supported Obama that he's been so deputized. You however seem to use that term on him more than others.

Semantically speaking Deane you need a better schtick.

Deane, your question about "change" has been answered, even if you may not like the answer. Seems that you've simply decided to be a dick; no point in wasting time responding to you if that's how you want to play.

"I fully realize he is The Chosen One..."

You mean like putting Ronald Reagan's face on Mt. Rushmore?

Talpdx--What a good idea. Ronald Reagen is my hero.

“...he's the Republican's dream come true as they prepare for the next election.”

If the GOP members of Congress continue on a trajectory of offering no alternatives to the Obama agenda and take all their marching orders from their favorite drug addled radio talk show host, then I think the idea of some sort of realignment during the mid-term elections is suspect at best. In order to win elections, you’ve got to run on ideas, not the child’s play that has best characterized the GOP path forward.

Ya know which Air America talk show host I have been enjoying lately? Ron Reagan. The President's son. The other night, he had on some conservative pundit, and he asked the guy who was the next up-and-coming Republican leader who could really communicate to the people like Reagan could? And the guy said, "Fred Thompson." And Ron said, "Well, I know a little something about Ronald Reagan...and Fred Thompson puts me to sleep." Who the hell can argue with him??? These Republicans invoke Reagan, and his kid (who is a liberal) is like, "Oh, REALLY?" Funny as hell!

You guys look sort of funny with your butts sticking in the air and your heads buried in the sand.

Why don't we just wait a couple of years and see who turns out to be right.

Deane, you might be right, since you of all people know what it's like to have your head buried in the sand - still do, it seems like. In a few years, no matter what happens, you'll still be looking for reasons to criticize Obama or you'll credit George W. Bush and the Republicans for anything positive that occurs under Obama.

No Andrew, I'd prefer that Obama turn out to be a genius, smarter than all the rest of the politicians and turn this into huge success. I'd make more money.

Trouble is, he said one thing and is doing the opposite. Reread the first post. Now, if this were Bush, you guys would be screaming liar at maximum volume instead of blindly defending him. Even the Democrats in Congress are becoming alarmed.

So far as his Marxist leanings, and his thrust toward socialism, I hope he fails at that.

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and the GOP Congress had eight years to turn the economy into a sewer and Obama is supposed to clean it up in two years. Most sensible people realize the mess left for President Obama is so huge that it’ll probably take the better part of his first term and into his second to clear out all the sludge.

The GOP and George W. Bush didn’t do President Obama or the American people any favors. President Obama has so many messes to clean up it’s unreal. From the economy to Iraq to Afghanistan to most foreign relationships, he’s going to be busy trying to repair the carnage left by George W. Bush.

God I love the sound of that; President Barack Obama. How sweet it is.

Maybe in a coupla years Deane, you can be worth talking too again. Maybe sooner!

I like that Deane.

This one is pissed off, slippery, just looking for any possible way to diminish anything good that might happen, because if it actually happens, he kind of looks the fool.

Sorry man. I really am. What needs to pass is some time. As we see better the shape of things, where the impacts are, perhaps then we can have some useful discussions.

At this time, it is too early.

(goes on ignore Deane mode for a time)

>>President Barack Obama. How sweet it is.

you know a very sweet apple can turn/change into a rotten mess...hope were not headed there.

Kind of like the Clinton budget surpluses of the 90's disappearing into huge deficits under George W. Bush?

"Why don't we just wait a couple of years and see who turns out to be right."

No need to wait. We already know who's wrong; the people supporting Bush economic policy that led to our current economic crisis.

>> budget surpluses of the 90's

ah gentlemen, it was caused by Republican Leadership of the day and the boom of the dot.com's.

Kind of like the Clinton budget surpluses

There were no true "surpluses" as in extra money in the bank.

All there was was fancy accounting (like they all do, including Bush) with things like "Well we won't spend that money on this project 10 years from now".

Not real surpluses, just cuts sometime in the future.

Presidents usually push these things out 8-10 years so that their successor is the one stuck with dealing with it.

It's not a Republican or Democrat thing, just smoke and mirrors that DC uses.

Just wanted to see if any of you had come out of your state of euphoria and begun to realize what you got in the White House. Most haven't.....yet.

We lived through 8 years of DUHbya and Co.'s crap I think we will be okay. DUHbya and Co. got us here so what's your real point?

"Not real surpluses, just cuts sometime in the future."

FY1998–FY2001 were the first four consecutive surplus years in over 60 years. The surpluses totaled $558 billion over this period: $69 billion in 1998, $129 billion in FY1999, $236 billion in FY2000, and $127 billion in FY2001.

This according to the Office of Management and Budget.

And gentlemen, remember, it is the President that submits a federal budget and signs it into law. The budgets that produced surpluses were submitted and signed into law by President Clinton. I though enjoy your efforts at revisionist history. Very Republican of you.

>>The budgets that produced surpluses were submitted .........

to a Republican Congress that will pass a balanced one everytime unlike what were going thru now...fiscal destruction ahead.

LOL -- Broadway, you are funny. You mean like the budgets George W. Bush submitted to Congress during his eight years in office? Not to mention all the war supplementals he demanded during his years in office. He couldn't even finance his war honestly. I think you're suffering for amnesia. The GOP Congress and George W. Bush were disasters for this country. Do you remember the past eight years? And for all the money George W. Bush borrowed, what do we have to show for it? Did he cure cancer, heart disease or AIDS with that money? Did he cap the growing costs of college tuition? Did he provide health insurance for every American? Can you name one thing he did with that $5 plus trillion dollars he borrowed that will stand the test of time as a monument to the greatness of the American people? I’d really like to know.

Talpdx you're not playing fair with all those facts.

we got Some trouble for sure, but think positive!!!

"to a Republican Congress that will pass a balanced one everytime unlike what were going thru now...fiscal destruction ahead."

You mean, just like the budgets Dubya, a Republican, submitted to a Republican-controlled Congress? You mean a SURPLUS budget, much less balanced?

Oh wait. My bad.

America is getting hammered like never before...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/06/study-dow-decline-marks- fastest-new-president-nearly-century/

And here's great economic advise coming to the Whitehouse...

http://www.businessinsider.com/uh-oh-white-house-seeks-economic-advice-from-twit ter-2009-3

Oh you gotta love the very good word smiths at FOX.

---

quote:

The Dow Jones Industrial Average has fallen faster under President Obama than under any new president in at least 90 years, according to a review conducted by Bloomberg.

---

After Saddam Husain was executed. We should have declared victory and come back home. And saved a hell of a lot of money in the process. The last eight years has been the biggest ripoff of the taxpayers in my lifetime. Don't blame our new president for the mess we are in.

and remember the Words of Rahm Emanuel....

Never waste a good crisis....

personally think there are too many irons in the fire. Address the major issues head on one at a time, rather than putting too many items on the plate. Economy first, then health care,alternative energy, and the rest of the goals. Hit them all at once, and risk nothing being done well.

That was one of President Carter's problems in the late 1970's -- taking on too many issues at once. Even though he was a Democrat, he didn't have good working relationships with the Congressional leadership and it made getting anything done nearly impossible. Ironically, Carter was dealing with some of the same issues Obama is today (i.e. energy and health care). Carter tried to go around Congress and get the American public on his side but it was never all the effective.

When should the White House step in and play a co-equal partner with Congress in crafting legislation without stepping on Congresses toes? Obama wants comprehensive health care reform passed by Labor Day. I'm not sure how possible that will be given all the player involved but you never know.

Finding a good balance is a challenge.

I think Obama has no choice but to multi-task. That's how bad a mess we are in. I believe he has the skills to handle this crisis.

Broadway you really need to educate yourself on simple economics. Now that you're not working full-time try an Econ-Class at a community college in Salem. It will open your eyes and best of all you'll actually learn something in process.

>>Econ-Class at a community college

good grief...thats how our nation is in the mess it's in...very bad applied knowledge from our liberal bastions of higher Ed...not impressed with man's so called wisdom.

>>simple economics

by the end of Obama's term the DOW will be near zero at this rate...don't need more time to let his policies work. People...things are getting really, really bad.

"things are getting really, really bad"

So you blame Obama for this mess or not fixing it overnight?

The conservative/GOP thought seems to be "put Obama on as high as a pedestal as possible, that way he'll fall even harder."

Too bad the past 8 years you didn't hold Bush on the same level. Now you have the mess that was mainly on his watch, but for you looking in the recent past is not very convenient.

I think Broadway is pulling our leg. Nobody can be that dense.

Broadway, sounds like you’re spending your days listening to Glenn Beck. There is more to life than listening to that huckster. He’s completely disingenuous.

...but THEY ARE ALL AROUND US!

UNTOLD NUMBERS OF CONSERVATIVES JUST MAD AS HELL AND NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE.

Talpdx...I recall during the campaign that Broadway posted McCain in a landslide. That still has to smart.

This Eric Carmen cut goes out to Broadway and anyone else who is feelin' politically lonesome.

I think Broadway is pulling our leg. Nobody can be that dense.

Oh I don't know.... LimBLAH, Insannity, Deane_johnson, Wayne, Herb....Brodway is right up there with them...

" by the end of Obama's term the DOW will be near zero at this rate...don't need more time to let his policies work. People...things are getting really, really bad."

So if the DOW goes up, by any amount you deem worthy, then you'll call Obama a success? Do you think it will it be his doing? Or will you move on to some other thing that isn't where you'd like to see it?

You can pick the game, the rules and the finish line. But say it, out loud. Today.

What will you have to see in order to think he is a good President? Name it.

Gotta go with Trixter on this.

Responding to CJ's question:

For me, honesty is foremost. I sincerely feel like I've been repeatedly lied to these past eight years. I want a president that is honest. Too, the transparency issue is important. President Obama has talked a great deal about keeping his administration being transparent and I’m going to keep him to it. I fully recognize it isn’t always possible to be totally transparent, but I expect me a great deal more than what I saw during the Bush years.

As for policy matters, I expect health care reform to be a centerpiece of his administration. I’m tired of hearing about families pushed to the brink of financial ruin by the current system. Personal bankruptcy because of medical expenses is a major problem in this country. And I’m sick of how business is expected to carry the burden of paying for health insurance for its employees. There needs to be a better and much more realistic formula because quite frankly, the system that is in place today cripples business and leaves too many people without any coverage. I should note that my grandfather was a dentist. He never turned anyone away -- letting them pay when they could afford it or with live stock. It was a much different time.

International affairs. I want a president and an administration that can work well with its international partners. The unilateral approach under George W. Bush was patently ridiculous. George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and the neo-con cabal have done more to damage our reputation globally. We need our reputation back.

Lastly, the paying for higher education. I have real issues with families being forced to take out second and third mortgages to pay for their student children’s education. All the while, mom and dad are trying to finance a retirement fund. It's very hard to do. Middle class kids are being priced out of attending good, 4 year schools school because tuition, books, and living expenses are crazy expensive. When I was of college age, a person could find a very good summer job in a sawmill or paper mill or something of that sort that paid very well for a three month period. Does that happen anymore? The current system doesn’t really work well for kids who fall into the mid income range. Reagan tightened the financial aid requirements back for federal financial aid in the 80’s and it has hasn't really changed to keep up with the times.

I could go on but I’ll leave it there for now.

CJ, just stick around. We need your great questions.

(waiting with interest for that answer)

>>recent past is not very convenient

where's the turn-around here, where's the bottom, where's that "change" in the economy were all suppost to see, all headed in the down/wrong direction here. FDIC needing a bailout...it's literal money in the mattress time.

So Broadway, you think if McCain had been elected things would have instantly turned around, eh? Sorry to inform you but you can't turn around a huge economic crisis years in the making in just a couple of weeks.

Dan it is truly amazing that you don't get simple economics.

Evidently you have a problem the GOP has, "selective hearing." Obama never promised a quick fix. As a matter of fact he along with many in his cabinet have stated it will get worse before we begin to see any turnaround...and it will be slow. This is a first step. Bush left the house in a total disaster and you think it will be easily fixed?

Do you even know what's going on?

"where's the turn-around here, where's the bottom, where's that "change" in the economy were all suppost to see, all headed in the down/wrong direction here. FDIC needing a bailout...it's literal money in the mattress time."

Broadway, do you grasp the depth of the problems in the economy -- and not only in the United States? In this country alone, the Fed and the US Treasury have had to float trillions of dollars to financial institutions to help stabilize their positions. It has been building for a very long time and it's going to take time to get better -- and not just a 24 hour news cycle. This isn't like George W. Bush and his promises about a short, inexpensive war in Iraq. President Obama isn’t ready to roll out the “Mission Accomplished” sign. It's going to last more than a few months – and President Obama has said that time and again. It’s legitimately OK to be very concerned but listening to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and Faux News provides nothing but factually insufficient drivel. And it doesn’t benefit them to be honest about the current situation. They are nothing more than entertainers with a political point of view. Do some reading and listen to more than conservative snake oil salesmen.

You guys are arguing with a retard.

Vita- Point taken.

Tardgument aside, this has been a good discussion.

What will you have to see in order to think he is a good President? Name it.

His better half.

He might even turn out to be a great President, but the goodness is already obvious.

but the goodness is already obvious

Yup!

"You guys are arguing with a retard."

Time will tell I suppose.
I'm going with willfully ignorant for now.
At least it's curable if one were to take Dr. Talpdx's prescription:

"Do some reading and listen to more than conservative snake oil salesmen"

From Drudge this morn...

NYT SUNDAY: Obama can not assure economy will grow again by end of year; Urges Americans not to 'stuff money in mattresses'

Change will have to wait...

Look, I'm disappointed that things continue to slide too. I said MANY times that economics has never been my strong suit. I'm not completely dense about it. But to pretend that that it's all such a simple fix - or that Broadway, you seem to have our GLOBAL ecomonic woes solution available to see...but never state - and to write off Obama, what 46 or so days into his administation is, as Vit noted, flat out retarded.

I still would like to hear your measure of success though. Just for fun.

Change has already occurred. George W. Bush is no longer president.

Can anybody assure us the economy will grow again by the end of the year? Can you assure me you can guess the numbers to the Powerball?

"From Drudge this morn... "

Ignorance breeds ignorance.

Big money goes around the world
Big money underground
Big money got a mighty voice
Big money make no sound
Big money pull a million strings
Big money hold the prize
Big money weave a mighty web
Big money draw the flies

Sometimes pushing people around
Sometimes pulling out the rug
Sometimes pushing all the buttons
Sometimes pulling out the plug
It's the power and the glory
It's a war in paradise
It's a Cinderella story
On a tumble of the dice

Big money goes around the world
Big money take a cruise
Big money leave a mighty wake
Big money leave a bruise
Big money make a million dreams
Big money spin big deals
Big money make a mighty head
Big money spin big wheels

Sometimes building ivory towers
Sometimes knocking castles down
Sometimes building you a stairway
Lock you underground
It's that old time religion
It's the kingdom they would rule
It's the fool on television
Getting paid to play the fool

Big money goes around the world
Big money give and take
Big money done a power of good
Big money make mistakes
Big money got a heavy hand
Big money take control
Big money got a mean streak
Big money got no soul...

Change has already occurred. George W. Bush is no longer president.

But yet what he did in 8 years has spilled over to Obama's first 2 months and beyond!

by the end of Obama's term the DOW will be near zero at this rate...don't need more time to let his policies work. People...things are getting really, really bad.

YOUR God DUHbya's effects are STILL being felt and will for some time. Blaming Obama for the Stack market is just asinine! Your MESSIAH DUHbya and his band of idiots did this and if you don't see it your blind as a neo-CON. WOW!

Trixter, when did Barney Frank become a Republican? Or, do you even know who Barney Frank is and what roll he played in creating this mess?

Oh do tell!

Barney Frank had no role creating this mess. Alan Greenspan has admitted to his role in all of this. MARKETS ARE NOT SELF REGULATING.

Are you guys ever in for some surprises.

Whatever, Rush.

"Are you guys ever in for some surprises."

If you're going to CRA, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, no surprises there.

Already debunked.

Deane sez: Are you guys ever in for some surprises.

You mean for once you're going to be right about something?

The Conservative blogesphere is all over this.

Google "Blame the Negro"

The GOP's favorite straw man, Barney Frank. The GOP have been trying to pin this whole mess on Barney Frank for months. Reminds me of G. Gordon Liddy trying to pin Watergate on John Dean. Pathetic, truly pathetic. And to top it off, the GOP and the conservatives have handled their lot to their favorite blowhard, the drug addled wizard of Palm Beach. What kind of opposition are we dealing with these days? I say let them wander the desert, as it should be.

Their refusal to add anything constructive to the national dialogue on most things speaks a great deal about their hope for the general demise of our country. Let Rush and the conservatives play their fiddles while the grownups repair the damage left behind by these very same conservatives.

It truly is pathetic and it's so completely obvious what the conservatives are trying to do, especially as it relates to Barney Frank. He's openly gay and Jewish. They hate him and everything he stands for. So they blame the gay, Jewish congressman. How very jacked booted brown shirt of them.

"Are you guys ever in for some surprises.'

Well I will agree with Deane on this. I was surprised that Bush found a way to get elected the first time. I was surprised that he was given a second term. I was surprised of how impatient he was to go to war on flimsy intelligence.

As a matter of fact it was nothing but surprises for 8 years Deane.

However the audacity of the GOP is what is truly surprising.

Ronald Regad would be spinning in his grave if he say what little Bush did. Ithe GOP I know were not in power with Bush. Notice Nancy Regan hasen't been seen much in public in years.

***"It truly is pathetic and it's so completely obvious what the conservatives are trying to do, especially as it relates to Barney Frank. He's openly gay and Jewish. They hate him and everything he stands for. So they blame the gay, Jewish congressman. How very jacked booted, brown shirt of them."***


Pathetic. When reality is not on your side, inject race and religion. Sick. A favorite liberal tactic. You know as well as I do that Barney Frank, and to a lesser extent, Christopher Dodd pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to make loans to people who shouldn't have them and couldn't possibly pay them off.

Yes, Bush certainly should have put a stop to it, but then you libs would be pissing and moaning about Bush not wanting the little guy to own a home.

Barney Frank, and to a lesser extent, Christopher Dodd pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to make loans to people

Basic Fact #1
Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac made no loans to anybody.
They are not Mortgage companies.

Of course they didn't, but they encouraged the banks to make the loans and they bought up the paper.

Ha! Bush was pushing housing to minorities back in 2002. Remember his phrase "The Ownership Society"?

That was not the problem. The problem came when those institutions that were making risky loans sweep them under the rug - so to speak. They securitized them (made derivatives) and sold them to Wall Street. Alan Greenspan thought this was a good idea - spread the risk.

Bloviate all you want, Deane. But given all the incendiary remarks you’ve made about President Obama when he was a candidate for president and your misogynistic remarks about Hillary Rodham Clinton, your effort at righteous indignation seems nothing short of contrived. Nice try though.

As for Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, go ahead and try to convince yourself that these two individuals were single handedly responsible for the current financial crisis. But it goes along with your rube like meanderings about most things political. Very few people, except the 25 percent who think George W. Bush was a good president, take you seriously.

"You know as well as I do that Barney Frank, and to a lesser extent, Christopher Dodd pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to make loans to people who shouldn't have them and couldn't possibly pay them off."

What an utterly stupid statement!!!! I had no idea that one rep out of 435 had such power. ROTFLMAO.

"Of course they didn't, but they encouraged the banks to make the loans and they bought up the paper."

But that's not what you said.
You were at best spreading misinformation, and at worst outright lying.

---

quote:

When reality is not on your side, inject race and religion. Sick.

---

"It's true that key Democrats opposed the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which would have established a single, independent regulatory body with jurisdiction over Fannie and Freddie – a move that the Government Accountability Office had recommended in a 2004 report.
Current House Banking Committee chairman Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts opposed legislation to reorganize oversight in 2000 (when Clinton was still president), 2003 and 2004, saying of the 2000 legislation that concern about Fannie and Freddie was "overblown." Just last summer, Senate Banking Committee chairman Chris Dodd called a Bush proposal for an independent agency to regulate the two entities "ill-advised."

But saying that Democrats killed the 2005 bill "while Mr. Obama was notably silent" oversimplifies things considerably. The bill made it out of committee in the Senate but was never brought up for consideration.
At that time, Republicans had a majority in the Senate and controlled the agenda. Democrats never got the chance to vote against it or to mount a filibuster to block it."


http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html

Andy, Neil Peart hit it right on the head when he wrote that song.

Once again proving he is not of this world, and well ahead of us simpletons!

Brian, like most of us Neil has the ability to articulate the truth about the world with words. His medium, music, our medium, this exchange of words. It is sad we have to constantly correct and admonish the lackluster bottom end of intelligence whom think they can dish out lies and distortion and get away with it.

Bottom feeder: "Barney Frank, and to a lesser extent, Christopher Dodd pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to make loans to people"

response:"Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac made no loans to anybody.
They are not Mortgage companies."

bottom feeder: "Of course they didn't, but they encouraged the banks to make the loans and they bought up the paper."

response: But that's not what you said.
You were at best spreading misinformation, and at worst outright lying.

Lying. Don't even think twice. Deane has devolved into a cut and paste right wing hack that is more concerned about disruption and distortion than exchanging ideas about facts. Period.

This from a story on KATU.com:

Simply put, the public isn't buying what Republicans are selling right now.

An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll this past week put Republican popularity at near historic lows. Just 26 percent in the survey viewed the party positively, compared with 68 percent for President Barack Obama, despite the economic crisis and sharp GOP criticism of his $3.8 trillion budget plan.

Republicans trailed by more than a 30-point margin on the question of which party is best positioned to end the recession.

When reality is not on your side.

Is it ever on YOUR side Deane? Most likely NOT!