http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/09/gop-sounds-alarm-obama-d ecision-census-white-house/

This pretty much guarantees that when I get my census form, it will go straight to the shredder.

Half the crap they ask on it is none of their business anyway.

Who cares how many bathrooms I have in my house (Unless they are selling the data to plumbers?)

Sounds like the GOP may be paranoid? Hanging out with Michael Phelps??

Not filling it out only hurts yourself you know.

FAUXNews strikes again!!!
FEAR! RED ALERT!
FEAR!
This is a non-issue
MOVE ON!

Clark co deserves less representation in Congress so just keep shredding those forms.

trix, I know you have to be smarter then that. You can not use the same post everyday. Come on now, come up with something new.

Good news Skybill -- The Census bureau is no longer interested in your lack of indoor plumbing.

The "long form" census questionnaire, which used to go to one in six households is gone. That info is now gathered via an annual "American Community Survey" sent to 3 million households per year.

"Every household in 2010 will get a shorter Census form, as required by the Constitution. This "short form" asks all members of every household their gender, age, race, ethnicity, relationship to the head of household and whether the home is owned or rented.

The government wants to keep the "short form" as short as possible. It dropped the foster care category in favor of asking whether anyone in the household sometimes lives elsewhere — children away at college, for example."

This new census form will have only six questions.... even Skybill should have a friend smart enough to help him answer them.

Here's a link to the census and American Survey questions.

www.census.gov/2010census/pdf/2010ACSnotebook.pdf

I fail to see what the worry is.

The last administration collected a ton of data, mined it, and racked, packed and sorted all of us out proper.

This is benign. Only a matter of efficency and timely execution.

trix, I know you have to be smarter then that. You can not use the same post everyday. Come on now, come up with something new.

Waiting for you first. You come on here once every 6 weeks and say the same thing as well... Pissing a moaning about how we are railing on DUHbya. He left the mess....
Come back when you have something to contribute as well...

MOVE ON!

I just delight in giving anything/anyone from the government a hard time.

Even if they only ask 6 questions, I'll pick and choose what/how I answer them, if for no other reason than to make it difficult for them.

For example, if they ask my age and birth date, I'll just give them my age. They don't need the birth date.

I sure as hell won't be giving them my phone number and/or address and if there is anything that will make it personally identifiable, I'll scratch that out so it can't be read.

And as sneaky as the government is, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to hide a RFID chip in the form. Hmmmm. I'll have to remember to put it in the microwave for 20 seconds or so!

If it's supposed to be just data gathering, than that's all they'll get from me is basic data.

I'm surprised that with the attitude the government takes that the question of gender doesn't have 3 possible choices. Male, Female and Other.

This is benign. Only a matter of efficency and timely execution.

I don't buy that. If it was, then they would have left it with the Commerce Dept. There is some ulterior motive. You can bet on that.

Bottom line is I just really enjoy jacking with and making things as difficult as possible for the government! Why not. They do it to us.

The census is mandated by the Constitution of the United States. It was mandated to allow the Federal Government to produce one estimate of population and minimal demography -- to aid the the assignment of members of the US House of Representatives, and the distribution of collected tax revenues to the various states.

Failure to fill out census surveys fully and correctly is a federal crime, due to the importance of the accuracy of such data. And any attempt to "pick and choose what/how I answer if for no other reason than to make it difficult" passes the expense of your childish temper tantrum onto the shoulders of the rest of America. They will keep after you, at our expense, until you fill it out correctly.

So be a total jerk and break the law skybill. We can all keep our fingers crossed that you're the lucky one they catch doing it, and make an example of you.

I'll give them what I think they need.

If it is in any way personally identifiable, or what I feel is none of their business then they can KMA.

LOL!!!

As if they don't already have it.

Very true! I just don't trust ANYBODY in DC.

As a veteran worker of the last two census' I will happily tell you what is the easiest method to answer the questions and not be bothered.....

Answer the six questions. Don't leave anything blank. You can be generic with your answer if you feel the question is too personal or specific.

When the long form asked for first names sex and ages of children, BLANK generated a followup. no name but M-13, M-8, F-4, was acceptable and resulted in no followup.

Leaving any question blank will result in a personal phone call, or visit. They will also ask your neighbors to fill in any missing info. The whole basis is to get an accurate count, and living info for housing and school information.

Now, IF you want to do your part to create jobs and stimulate the economy, I urge EVERYONE to NOT fill out their form. This will result in extended temporary employment for all census workers.

Again, if you think it's too personal, be generic but don't leave it blank.

I worked 4 months and traveled to Oakland (yes, that was scary) for a month in 1990. In 2000 3 weeks.

Yes. The government is absolutely not to be trusted with knowing anything about what we do...
... that way they can guess on which roadways should be widened, what areas need new schools, the appropriate number of workers to have behind the counter at DMV...

Go right ahead and refuse to tell the government anything about you and you will get the government service you desire.... crappy...

Having worked both in the private and public sector in the exact same technical field and in two countries (U.S. and Canada), I am speaking from hard personal experience.

Great idea Roger. Spending our precious financial resources on census budget overruns because people like skybill want to act like total jerks is much more valuable and productive than using it to funds schools, roads, homeland security...(FILL IN YOUR FAVORITE CAUSE HERE).

Apparently when Cheney left government there were still plenty of Dicks around here to take up the slack.

She said Dick. And slack. Huh huh huh.

....as opposed to spending precious financial resources...

that post shows you don't have to have one to be one................

Skybill wrote:
This pretty much guarantees that when I get my census form, it will go straight to the shredder.

Half the crap they ask on it is none of their business anyway.

Who cares how many bathrooms I have in my house (Unless they are selling the data to plumbers?)

Jesus Christ Skybill, if the republicans did this and said it was to spy on the terrorists (and they did), you would be right on board. Since it's a democrat, they MUST be up to something.

Nope. I didn't fill out the last one either.

None of their damn business no matter who is in the big house.

Let me get this straight Skybill -- You reject the United States Constitution???????

Is there a country who's constitution you do accept? We could take up a collection for a ticket.

If not, maybe we could just set you adrift mid-ocean in a raft named the Republic of Skybillistan, and let you negotiate treaties for any and all services you'd like to acquire from civilized nations of laws.

Skybill you might want to read this:

http://www.census.gov/2010census/

I did and will fill part of it out.

However, I will not give them anything that is personally identifiable and if the form has any kind of identifier in it, I'll scratch it out.

What I find interesting about folks who hate the Government is how "Government" is defined in the United States of America.

(hint: the first three words in the preamble of the Constitution)

It seems to me these are the people who hate America.

Amus, that's how it's supposed to be as you mentioned.

Politicians from both sides of the aisle have F'd it up royally and there are way too many people in the US that think that the Government can and will solve all their problems. (Or is needed to solve their problems)

NOT

Then solve it on your own.....

Exactly.

Skybill,

Normally I'd encourage someone with that attitude to get involved and work to change things rather than bitch about it.
But you're ideas are bourne of dogma as opposed to any fact or rational thought, do us a favor and stay where you are and keep bitching.

Title 13, Section 221 (Census, Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers) of the United States Code reads:

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

So my question to Skybill, what do you think the Census is going to do to you that makes you so unwilling to abide by the laws of our land?

In the few decades I have filled out the forms I can't think of one negative thing that has happened to me or my family. Not one!!

There isn't going to be anything either.

The purpose of that count is to get some metrics we can work with.

I think the idea that government is useless is silly. Of course stupid things happen. Sometimes really bad things happen, but overall it's a net value gain.

The idea of self-governance, and the means by which it has it's authority has it's roots in the fact that with out some form of government, our lives are pretty lousy.

Here's a sobering bit of info:

I've met two people working on US citizenship. Why do they want to be here, despite all the crap?

Because the way we formed our government matters to them. We have core human rights written into the law, and we are self-governed, and there is opportunity here that goes far beyond what other nations grant.

It's easy for us to bitch and moan about stuff. And we all do. Looking at it from the outside is very revealing! This nation is great, and it's great in part because of how it was founded.

As beings, we do better with government and structure of some kind. Too much squabbling, and inability to leverage what we know happens without it.

So filling out that benign form yields a few metrics. That's it!

Know why the Republicans generally hold the census in low regard?

Votes!

Homeless people, minority people, and other kinds of people are difficult to count. When these counts are more correct, it leads to balances in districts and other things that generally favor Democrats.

This is true, simply because the core ideas driving most Democrats are better aligned with our self-interests. That's it. Nothing evil.

Fill it out, don't fill it out. Get fined, or not.

Nothing will change. We will do a count, the metric will be established, decisions made and we move on.

Heck, Skybill! Tell your friends not to fill it out either. That will shift those metrics toward Democratic party causes. The more the merrier I say!

Have at it!

...what do you think the Census is going to do to you...

It's not going to "do" anything to me, and I don't expect it to.

As I mentioned before, I just enjoy being obstinate when it comes to the government.

I'll answer the parts that I want and if the form is benign and doesn't ask for personal info, I'll give it to them.

I won't give them anything that is personally identifable. That's all.

You know that Obama or someone in his administration has got to be up to something otherwise he'd have left it alone and not messed with it. BTW, I don't care who the president is, I'd feel the same way if they jacked with it.

From Missing's post: ...I think the idea that government is useless is silly.

Not all government is silly (or useless), just about 75% of it is.

Some government is absolutely necessary.

We need them to provide essential services, but it's gotten way out of hand.

Businesses are having to lay off thousands of people, families are having to cut back and do with less, so should the government. Dump about 25% of the people that work for the feds. That should help budget shortfalls.

Hey, let's sort that out.

We've got layoffs and a shitty economy because Republicans honestly believe that allowing greed to run unchecked to form "free markets", is the best way to go for all of us.

We've got lousy essential services because Republicans believe that private interest, driven by greed, will provide us the best service at the lowest cost.

Finally, we've got Republicans hosing up the works in government because they believe government doesn't work.

Go back and look at the New Deal, and other times when Democrats had enough control to do things in our best interests. It was pretty sweet most of the time --and would have been sweeter if we didn't have Republicans hosing things up regularly.

This has been going on now for 30 years. It's run us into the ground and right now, no private entity anywhere is capable of digging us out of it because they all lost their ass gambling in the markets. (essentially)

I think social security that is viable is an essential service. I believe good infrastructure, public services like police, fire, and schools are essential services.

Finally, a job market that is pro-labor delivers wages that make sense, and that too is an essential service, or we end up like China where people work the most for the least buying power per hour worked combined with sub-human working conditions.

If you are wondering why your taxes seem so high, just think what paying them would be like, if you were earning strong dollars.

And that regulation is a necessary service, as our wage is meaningless if our currency is devalued due to poorly realized trade agreements.

"poorly realized trade agreements"

You mean like NAFTA???

Not A Fair Trade Agreement.

"We've got layoffs and a shitty economy because Republicans honestly believe that allowing greed to run unchecked to form "free markets", is the best way to go for all of us."

BOTH sides are guilty of this, Missing. NAFTA and GATT were signed into law initially under the George H.W. Bush administration, with bipartisan support. They were widely expanded during the Clinton years, with bipartisan support. They were expanded further under the George W. Bush years, yes, with bipartisan support.

It's a bunch of bipartisan horseshit, if you ask me. I have NEVER liked these free-trade agreements and treaties; the premise is all noble, we're getting our goods cheaper, and helping out the third world. But, the fact of the matter is, our blue-collar, middle class jobs have evaporated, to these other places. Our corporate big-wigs are living high on the hog here, the average wage in the US has gone DOWN, manufacturing jobs have disappeared, our trade deficit has grown, and those "cheaper" goods do us no good because people are losing their jobs, and can't afford them anyways.

That said, if we repeal these treaties now, and do a strict, "America First" policy for OUR consumers, we're severely hurting our products overseas because they will impose the same sanctions on us, and this globalwide recession will only deepen. Again, that double-edged sword.

Where's the win in that for the United States of America, and the middle class?

BOTH the Republicans and Democrats are to blame.

Absolutely true, with regard to Clinton.

However, the motivation for that economic direction can be placed at the feet of the Republican party, starting with the election of Reagan. That's when the movement down this road started.

There is a lot of really lousy economic ideas out there, and a lot of pressure to continue them, and the root of those is the GOP, and big business.

I didn't see Democrats start that, but I do see them continuing it along. 30 years of expectations are hard to reset. It's gonna take a while for the idea that unrestrained capitalism isn't smart policy.

Now, as for the jobs that are gone --they are just gone. I don't see bringing them back making any sense at all, given where we are.

What we need to do then is expand the scope of jobs and that's done through infrastructure and R&D work on alternative energy.

Those jobs can start here and stay here, given we apply the smart policy to them.

Over time, having again established our own economy that builds it's own wealth, we can balance our exports with our imports and be on much better terms with other nations.

From there then, it makes sense to adjust the policy, using the reality that shipping goods is a lot more expensive than it appears, and isn't longer term sustainable.

I'm with you on the CURRENT blame. Both parties are contributing to the mess TODAY. (well, we don't know what Obama is going to do, but it's clear that large chunks of Congress still buys that corporate protection bull shit.)

The root of it though is Republican. They started it. I just need to make that very clear.

I think it can be fixed, and the easiest thing to do, as I posted above, is to expand the scope of potential jobs.

Markets either happen due to some demand being out there as just an artifact of society, or markets are created. Creating new markets, and STRUCTURING them so as to prevent this crap from continuing is our most viable option.

Really, that's a matter of work and political will. We can leave what we have right now alone, and just build out new things.

Whatever we do, it is now absolutely clear that "free trade", in the form of lightly or completely unregulated markets, just sucks ass. We, the middle class, lose huge.

Firm regulation is needed to prevent greed from running amok, leaving all of us in a very bad state, like we are right now.

What I'm trying to say here is that supply side economics is bull shit. Always has been bull shit. That's over.

Some people are starting to come around, but there still are a ton of people who haven't. They think we will just get past this and ride another bubble.

As I mentioned before, I just enjoy being obstinate when it comes to the government.

Which begs the question why is everyone bothering talking with this guy when he's actually f-ing up the efforts of others trying to do something to improve things.

Let him waddle in his world by himself, whining away accomplishing nothing.



As for the other comments by KSKD and Brianl, I agree, the Democrats are not perfect either, Clinton sure did botch a few things -- NAFTA being one of them.

you can't lay a mess like this at the feet of one party. If so EVERY Republican in the house and Senate for more than 8 years is complicent. Now you throw in Dems who went along for the ride and you can place the blame all around. As for the NEW DEAL. things weren't looking up for people until after the war. Before, the tax rates and spending provided bare minimum living for a few with government make work projects. For most looking for work, Unemployment lasted until the factories geared up for the war and people built military goods, or used them. With little in the way of consumer goods, there was an increase in savings, that gave the private sector a jolt when there were enough consumer goods to fill the pent up demand AFTER the war. Still, most of that boost came from Government subsidized income. The difference is at that time the debt was held by the citizens in the form of war bonds and taxes remained high which helped with the spending....

Now, the Government is issuing debt, and not financing it. Rather than selling "WAR"bonds to our own people, Foreign Governments own much. When they cash in, bet they won't be buying U.S. manufactured goods.

My arguement against these stimulus billions is it didn't come with a plan to finance it.

That's like you saying, I'll buy a new house, car, and furniture, and after you have them all THEN START thinking about where the funds will come from to pay for it. 1000+ pages and congress and their staff have only each read bits and pieces. Nobody knows the all the facts.

ANYBODY AGAINST alternative energy?

NO. OK ALTERNATIVE ENERGY IT IS.......

the bad part is that when the bill comes due and your utilities are unaffordable, it's too late to rethink it.

An exaggeration, but the point was you need a destination, the means to get there, and a plan to cover the expenses, BEFORE you start the road trip.

this road trip only includes the destination, and a loan for the trip

The root of it though is Republican...

How about we shoot all the Republican politicians, replace them with Democrats, disband the rest of the Republican party and any body that professes to be a Republican will be banished to a desert island.

Would that make the libs happy???

I doubt it. They'd still find something to piss and moan about.

After all, the problems of the entire world are the Republicans fault and specifically, Bush's fault.

No it wouldn't!

There are some good Republicans. There are good Democrats too. There are a lot of poor quality both!

Primary politics man. For both parties, run challengers, push for Internet campaigns to match up the corporate money, and shake them down.

The only way things are going to significantly change is for people to lose seats, and be replaced by better people.

I'm sorry for hammering Republicans, but the economic crap is sourced to them. They invented it, sold it to people through Reagan, and it's been draining us ever since.

Lose supply side economics, and I'll deal with the social stuff.

The combination of both has been brutal.

*I was a registered Republican for many years* Changed up in 2003.

Thanks go to Bush for that. Lots of the ugly was there before he took office, but he highlighted it to the point where I saw the Republican party had gone way too far astray of it's roots.

Conservative isn't bad. Liberal isn't bad. Either can be progressive. That's not the point. The point is the party not actually being conservative!

I can live with conservative. When mixed with a healthy dose of liberal, we get solid progress. We don't get this when it's so damn corporate.

What I'm concerned about is the prevalent attitude in D.C. The partisan bickering and sniping is at record levels; I do honestly believe that Obama wants to reach across the aisle and get some bipartisan support for much of his ideas, and agenda. He has taken the unheard of task of reaching out to his constituents in the GOP and seeking their help, their feedback, their support. He has come out time and again and said that he WELCOMES debate, dialogue, and compromise, for the betterment of the American people.

(When is the last time you recall George W. Bush taking these steps? Anyone?! Didn't think so!)

The Republicans complained about partisan bickering from the Democrats post-2006 midterm elections (and they had every right to). Now THEY are doing the same thing ... Yeah, there are some Democrats that like to stir the pot, like their Congressional leaders Reid and Pelosi, but the fact of the matter is that the man in the Oval Office truly seeks unity here, to better serve the public. It would nice if Capital Hill would recripocate.

"there are some Democrats that like to stir the pot, like their Congressional leaders Reid and Pelosi"

Reid?!?
Stir the Pot?!?

Reid?!?
The guy is milquetoast.

He snipes, quite a bit, at the GOP. Yes, he largely is a wimp, but he takes swings ...

THAT is what I'd like to see us get away from. Disagree, but have some damn respect doing it.

The only pissing and moaning that's going on are from the likes of Rush, Hannity, et al. They hate America and don't respect the voters who decided their way was not the best way.

Step aside losers, elections have consequences.