archive2009-14.pdxradio.com » Politics and other things

  1. Andrew
    Member

    This is going to be different from any vote for military action since World War II. First of all, as I've note in the other thread, there is obviously no UN mandate here. And other than perhaps a few other countries (what are the French contributing - cheese?), we're going to go this one alone in Syria if we go.

    One unusual thing about this proposed action compared to other military actions where Congress approved (and they've never said no): we are not offering the Syrian government a way to avoid the violence. When Congress authorized military action in Iraq, both times, Saddam Hussein was offered a way out: get out of Kuwait (1990) or get out of your own country (2003). The military action in Kosovo and Serbia in 1999 continued until Serbia backed down, but they could have acquiesced before it started and not gotten hurt.

    This time, it's not "Assad do this or else we kick your ass." Instead, it's "Do we kick Assad's ass or not?" I think that's an important distinction. A congressperson could have voted on Iraq with the belief that the other side still had the opportunity to avoid the violence they are authorizing. Isn't it very different when you authorize violence directly?

    On the political side, I wonder if, for Republicans, the desire to embarrass Obama and make him look weak will override their natural inclination to back military action and salute the flag. Congressional Democrats will be split, I believe, as they usually are on matters of military action. And there was a fear (justified or overblown) of Saddam Hussein in the votes over Iraq. I don't think anyone is afraid of Bashar al-Assad.

    It's going to be a tough vote. There seems a better than even chance that Obama could lose.

    Posted on September 1, 2013 - 10:14 PM #
  2. Skybill9
    Member

    "...what are the French contributing - cheese?"

    Probably some whine to go with the cheese!

    Posted on September 2, 2013 - 12:43 AM #
  3. Andy_brown
    Member

    "I wonder if, for Republicans, the desire to embarrass Obama and make him look weak will override their natural inclination to back military action and salute the flag."

    It's lose lose for the righties. They are either ignoring Assad like the U.S. and Britain ignored Hitler's rise or they are acquiescing to Obama's wishes.

    Posted on September 2, 2013 - 09:15 AM #
  4. Chris_taylor
    Member

    So Andrew, what is the upside, if any, for US military action in Syria? Will this change anything or just add more violence to an already violent situation.

    Posted on September 2, 2013 - 10:59 AM #
  5. stevethedj
    Member

    I agree with you Chris. 8)

    Posted on September 2, 2013 - 11:08 AM #
  6. Uncle Mort
    Member

    Congress must make a POLITICAL decision to authorize a political objective: enforcing chemical weapons treaties and preventing mass murder.

    Whereas... MILITARY action must finally be confidential and in the hands of the commander-in-chief and his military advisors. Obama is showing the world that he is level-headed and wary of over-involvement. Just the guy i want in charge, along with John Kerry who is a real heavyweight in his own right. Kerry has no equal in debate and I look forward to some smartass Repugnican having a go at him.

    Posted on September 2, 2013 - 11:23 AM #
  7. NoParty
    Member

    Chris said>>>
    So Andrew, what is the upside, if any, for US military action in Syria? Will this change anything or just add more violence to an already violent situation.

    Same thing was asked about Iraq. It fell on deaf ears because the CONs bloodlust for Sadam.

    Posted on September 2, 2013 - 11:25 AM #
  8. Andrew
    Member

    Chris, this proposed military action by Obama is about enforcing a ban on the use of chemical weapons, not about trying to change the course of the civil war in Syria. When you ask "Will this change anything?" are you asking whether thugs will feel comfortable in the future when considering the use of sarin gas? Or are you disputing the real objective of this military action?

    If we hit Syria's chemical weapons capability hard and then they use sarin gas again and we hit them again...how many times are they going to keep at it? Not very long. And other thugs and dictators around the world will take notice.

    If we do nothing now, the use of chemical weapons will increase no doubt, and the scale of death and suffering in future wars and attacks will increase substantially, perhaps even on our own soil.

    Posted on September 2, 2013 - 11:55 AM #
  9. kennewickman
    Member

    This action ( if it ever happens ) will likely not change one thing about whether or not Syria or any other nation/state or organization lowers itself to the use of WMD/Chemical Weapons et. al...

    It will make the US look a bit better to our so called "Allies"..especially after what I assume will be a positive outcome in Congress for authorization of force in Syria. I think in the end and after all the rhetoric in the next few weeks and depending upon what happens this 911 anniversay a week from Wednesday, the Majority of Republicans in both the House and Senate will vote AYE on this..actually if something significant DOES happen on 911 here or abroad..it would be more likely to engender a Positive vote from Congress for Military action in Syria.

    Now, if we 'get lucky' and can hit real Chem Weapon delivery system targets..( they have been moved to safer locations in Syria from what I understand) but really hit them hard as Andrew says..it might make more of a difference to those who would use these weapons in the future..

    I of course agree with Andy ( and that doesnt very often happen in here) ..we outtah take out Assad and his lovely expatriot Bitch from Limeyland ass Queen Nore` or (whats her name) with a Friggin' Drone Stike or something..like we are so keen at doing with all the other Al-queada types..wouldnt hurt my feelings at all...AND that would be a real message in all this , IMHO...

    Posted on September 2, 2013 - 12:11 PM #
  10. Uncle Mort
    Member

    My guess about how the Repugnicans will vote is just the opposite. They have one agenda and Syria will be another means to that end.

    Posted on September 2, 2013 - 01:02 PM #