archive2009-14.pdxradio.com » Politics and other things

  1. NoParty
    Member

    Deane said>>>
    Probably several. That's why he cleaned house.

    Seriously? Cleaned House? Made the world a more unstable place with his invasion on Iraq and occupation of Afghanistan? Yup, we all knew that wouldn't piss anyone off... What fucking planet do you live on Deane? You really need to get out of that bunker from time to time....

    Cleaning house??? They all went to Syria and then when the Obama administration wanted to go get them last year you obstructionists didn't want to do a fucking thing about it.

    Posted on August 20, 2014 - 01:14 PM #
  2. NoParty
    Member

    Deane said>>>
    "You get more like Herb every day."

    I believe that would be preferred.

    In fantasyland... STAT more SSRIs!!!!

    WOW!

    The word for today kids is FUCKED UP!

    Posted on August 20, 2014 - 01:16 PM #
  3. Deane Johnson
    Member

    Trixter, have you considered some sort of therapy?

    Posted on August 20, 2014 - 01:45 PM #
  4. NoParty
    Member

    YES!

    So should you and thinking otherwise would be downright stupid.

    Posted on August 20, 2014 - 01:56 PM #
  5. HD
    Member

    Please keep flattering me with comparisons to Deane.

    And that red line Barry drew? It gets paler by the day. Even the Huffington Post understands that:

    '...the Obama administration likely facilitated the rise of ISIS by withdrawing American forces from Iraq prematurely before adequately consolidating the substantial gains of President Bush's 2007 surge. In 2011, the president declared the Iraq War at an end, boasting of leaving behind a stable and self-reliant Iraq. As Dexter Filkins reports in the New Yorker, the Obama administration barely attempted to exert its considerable leverage to achieve a status of forces agreement that would have prolonged a reduced American military presence.

    The unconditional withdrawal of American forces created a power vacuum in Iraq which Iran and other radicals filled. It unleashed Iraqi Prime Maliki's worst sectarian instincts, making him more dependent on Iran. It facilitated Iran using Iraq as a conduit to support surrogates in the Syrian Civil War which has blown back to imperil the coherence of the Iraqi state.

    ...history brims with examples demonstrating how the irresolute use of force risks the worst possible outcomes. Kennedy's Bay of Pigs Fiasco in 1961 tempted Soviet Premier Khrushchev to provoke the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. Lyndon Johnson's strategy of graduated escalation convinced an implacable North Vietnam the United States lack the will to win. The debacle of Carter's failed rescue mission of the American hostages in Iran plummeted American prestige its Cold War Low. Clinton's precipitous withdrawal from Somalia in 1993 fed the delusion of Osama Bin Laden that the United States was the great but decadent Satan too irresolute the fight.

    The United States would save much blood, toil, tears, and sweat defeating ISIS decisively now rather than later. Yet Obama's pinprick response devoid of strategic rationale will invite the maximum contempt for American resolve. The president will compound the risk of miscalculation if he continues to speak loudly while carrying a small stick.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-g-kaufman/the-perils-of-obamas-vaci_b_5691643.html

    Posted on August 20, 2014 - 03:47 PM #
  6. Listener_Pete
    Member

    Just remember the date: March 19, 2003

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/19/sprj.irq.int.bush.transcript/

    Posted on August 20, 2014 - 04:04 PM #
  7. Andrew
    Member

    Herb: '...the Obama administration likely facilitated the rise of ISIS by withdrawing American forces from Iraq prematurely before adequately consolidating the substantial gains of President Bush's 2007 surge.

    Oh, what utter nonsense. How can people be so woefully uninformed about current events and still be allowed to write something in the Huffington Post?

    Anyone who has been following the news the last few years knows the BUSH Administration negotiated the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq in 2008. Obama kept their time table.

    The only point of dispute in 2011 was whether the US would keep a small number of troops in Iraq (as we are doing in Afghanistan) after combat troops left. The Obama admin tried to negotiate for them to stay, but the Iraq government refused to grant them immunity from prosecution - i.e., up until then, US troops could not simply be hauled before some Iraq court and be subject to whatever barbaric Islamic laws the locals live under. When the Iraqi government refused to grant that, the US gave up on leaving any troops there.

    Even so...would the small number of US troops that might have been left behind after 2011 had any impact on the rise of ISIS? Almost certainly likely not.

    Posted on August 20, 2014 - 04:07 PM #
  8. duxrule
    Member

    So, what's the answer, Herb? BTW, do we need to remind you that people warned that this would happen, BEFORE Dubya went off on his little vendetta? This is another mess made by the previous administration, which the O'Haters continue to try and foist onto the current president.

    Posted on August 20, 2014 - 04:08 PM #
  9. Amus
    Member

    We're just not killing enough brown people fast enough.

    Posted on August 20, 2014 - 04:13 PM #
  10. Andrew
    Member

    If Obama had reversed Bush's withdrawal - in direct opposition to what he ran on in 2008 - and left say 50,000 or 75,000 troops in Iraq - might THEY have prevented the rise of ISIS? Perhaps for a little longer. Then again, they may have risen earlier. US troops were a source of irritation in Iraq and only served to piss off the locals - and were likely to continue being killed by insurgents.

    A big part of the "success" of the 2007 surge was the fact that the US started paying Sunni insurgents in Iraq not to kill us. Yep, we paid them off.

    And we also let them know we would be leaving. So...please stop killing us and we will leave. If you don't stop the insurgency, the US will be forced to stay and prove it isn't "running away." And meanwhile, as things calm down, the Iraqi government will have time to come to a political solution: the inclusion of Kurdish and Sunnis in the Shia-dominated government.

    The political solution didn't happen. No doubt the Sunnis felt duped. No wonder they signed up to support a Sunni insurgency.

    Posted on August 20, 2014 - 04:13 PM #